F.E.A.S.T's Around The Dinner Table forum

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Muminhope
I am back the forum again after one more month. My D is now on weight restoration. I received great comments from parents in the forum in past months. They are so helpful for my D’s recovery. She has gained 7 pounds since the end of last Dec.. She meets the minimum weight of her range last week and so far most of time she follows her meal plan including 3 meals and 3 snacks quite well. However I worry about her mental condition recently. Last month one morning I found she sneaked to pour her milk in my glass. I pointed out and she said I gave her more than last time normally. After I pointed out she poured some milk in the container and of course I didn’t agree. So I asked her to take one more glass of milk. She’s so emotional and repeated her reasons. I insisted and then she lost control suddenly appeared very terrified to stare at me. She cried and screamed. She went upstairs to her room. She kept knocking her forehead on the wall. My H hugged her and comforted her. Finally she calmed down and she completed all of her meals in that day. Tonight when we had dinner together, my H found her noodles in her bowls looked less and doubted she took out some. She denied. So my H cooked another bowl to her. She argued and complained we gave her more. We insisted that’s what she must take. Finally although she’s unhappy she accepted and finished to eat. After the dinner I told her I can’t rely on herself to eat all of her food if only her friend and hers. I said I need to reconsider if she would be allowed to hang out with her friends to have lunch and snack this Saturday. She was silent a while. And suddenly she talked herself and seemed have hallucinations and appeared terrified. She cried but no screaming. She talked but we didn’t understand what she said. Her father hugged her. I tried to be close to her. She said she would not see me. “You’re evil”. She told me. Around 30 minutes later she calmed down. When she had her evening snack she asked me to sit with her. I asked her if she has clear mind earlier she said she doesn’t know it. But she said it’s me to push her too much which causes this consequence. I am so depressed. I doubt what I have done is wrong or not. I thought I should fight to her ED even only one loophole. I can’t allow it because it may be wider and wider. I don’t know if such kind of mental issues are common during the recovery journey because I never saw it even when she was under a lot her weight range. Before that she normally appeared anxious and stressful. And recently it seems worse. We had a few appointments with different psychiatrists and every time she denied any issues. She said she would never to take any medication. And she does. So far she haven’t any medication to support her treatment. She said no need. Your comments are really appreciated.
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ValentinaGermania
Maybe I get that wrong in your post but reaching the minimum line of her weight range is no weight restoration. From all you tell about her behaviour there is no brain recovery starting up to now. She needs more weight.
Please check her historical growth/weight chart if you have some and get her at least back to that percentage with a buffer +.
Feed her until you see a slow but steady change in behaviour.

"After the dinner I told her I can’t rely on herself to eat all of her food if only her friend and hers. I said I need to reconsider if she would be allowed to hang out with her friends to have lunch and snack this Saturday."

This is something for phase 2 and good recovery state. It is too early to ask her to do that herself. What you have not seen being eaten is normally not eaten.

"But she said it’s me to push her too much which causes this consequence."

This is ED talk. She blames you because you are the person that insists on eating. You have not done anything wrong.

"I don’t know if such kind of mental issues are common during the recovery journey because I never saw it even when she was under a lot her weight range. Before that she normally appeared anxious and stressful. And recently it seems worse."

This is totally normal. When they are severly underweight there is more anxiety and stress. Now she gets near WR she is fighting more. Read all posts about "extinction burst" here. It is normal that it gets worse before it gets better.

"We had a few appointments with different psychiatrists and every time she denied any issues. "

You need to see a specialised ED or better FBT therapist. They should know that denial is normal with that disease. It is called anosognosia. She does not understand that she is sick. If you can tell us in what region you live we can help you to find an ED specialist.
Keep feeding. There is light at the end of the tunnel.
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Foodsupport_AUS
This does sound very normal for this stage of illness. Your D from your previous post is only 13 so as Valentina has mentioned she is not at all weight restored. She is at a minimally normal weight but will almost certainly need to continue to gain for some time. It is normal for teens to gain until their early 20's. The anxiety, anger and distress she is experiencing now is normal. She is of course still getting a hard time from her ED thoughts and it is up to us to stand up to them and insist on full nutrition every day - no exceptions. It sounds like she is not yet ready to take responsibility at all for feeding herself. 
D diagnosed restrictive AN June 2010 age 13. Initially weight restored 2012. Relapse and continuously edging towards recovery. Treatment: multiple hospitalisations and individual and family therapy.
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MKR
Hi @Muminhope,

Good to hear from you, I often wondered how things were going. 

Well done on gaining 7 pounds and the 3 meals and 3 snacks.  You have come a long way since those early posts. But like Valentina said, there is still a long way to go. 

I have been called evil and mean by ED talking out of my daughter's mouth when I gave her more food. She doesn't even remember that (I do! because it hurt to hear, but I know it wasn't my real daughter).

Your husband is supporting you and your daughter by offering hugs when she is stressed. I remember how she used her phone for comfort, not her parents. She lets you hug her now, so it is a sign that she feels safe with you. And that she is getting better. 

Keep going! Keep feeding! Well done all of you.
Mum's Kitchen

14-y-o "healthy living" led to AN in 2017 and WR at 16. Current muscle dysmorphia.
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Torie
Hello, and thank you for the update.

I agree with the others.  You have done a really great job so far.  Well done!!  Seven pounds since December is awesome.

It is really unfortunate that they usually have to get worse before they can get better.  Like many others here, we found that d got more emotional and irrational as she neared weight restoration.  So, that is actually a good sign.  She is getting there!

These last 5 to 10 pounds are often the hardest.  On a positive note, they are also the 5 to 10 pounds that bring the biggest improvement.  She is so lucky that you are fighting for her.

I am wondering how she could have that meal and snack with her friends when she is clearly not able to eat enough without you there.  Could you find a way to join them?  When my d was ill, I sometimes had her invite a friend (or friends) to lunch with the understanding that 1) I would pay for the lunch and 2) I would be there for the lunch.  I did not actually sit with them - I sat at a nearby table, behind my d so that I could see her, but she could not see me.  Do you think something like that might work?  

Of course d hated having her mom there, but her friends loved this because they got a free lunch.  I always just sat by myself, but perhaps you could invite one of your friends to sit with you or maybe the mom of one of her friends.

I'm sorry she said you are evil.  Ouch.  It is like when your toddler says, "I hate you"  - it doesn't mean anything.  They are a lot like toddlers in this state.

Thank you again for the update.  I hope you will continue to let us know how you are doing. xx

-Torie
"We are angels of hope, of healing, and of light. Darkness flees from us." -YP 
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Muminhope
Thank you so much for all of your support and feedbacks! Probably I didn’t express D’s situation very clearly. She’s 13 and was diagnosed AN last April. She’s in inpatient in July and was discharged in October. Her weight was restored when she’s discharged. Unfortunately her weight kept down until early December. After that we supervise her lunch at her school and her weight gains steadily. She’s 48kg and 162 cm height. BMI around 18.2 last week. We live in Vancouver Canada. She’s scheduled to visit outpatient ED program in our community every 2 weeks. We paid a psychologist in ED field since last April. But D hasn’t responded to the psychologist at all. Since this January we don’t have family therapist at all. Yes, I think a professional ED therapist is very helpful to my D. Can anybody could recommend one to me? The psychologist have ever recommended CBT therapy probably works but that CBT therapist she recommended won’t return in a year. When her brain starts healing? We see some progress of her mental status such as laughing a lot, enjoys food in restaurants and cooperative to our rules (meals and cell phone etc.) However we see ED behaviors shows occasionally such as reluctant to take one more bite food besides her meals and argue how much the amount of her meals sometime.Her period was back once she’s discharged and stopped after last November. Her hormone is quite low so her period won’t come back now I think.

Today is Valentine’s Day. Wish everybody in our forum happy Valentine’s Day and being surrounded with full love and brightness.
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Foodsupport_AUS
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When her brain starts healing? We see some progress of her mental status such as laughing a lot, enjoys food in restaurants and cooperative to our rules (meals and cell phone etc.) However we see ED behaviors shows occasionally such as reluctant to take one more bite food besides her meals and argue how much the amount of her meals sometime.Her period was back once she’s discharged and stopped after last November. Her hormone is quite low so her period won’t come back now I think.


The way to get her period back is food and more food and more weight. It is essential for her long term health that she get her period back. You also wont see good long term recovery or mental recovery until those hormones are working normally. https://www.kartiniclinic.com/blog/post/no-weight-restoration-no-periods-estrogens-role-on-cognitive-function-and-r/blog/tags/tag/bulimia/

Sorry I can't help you out with therapists. 
D diagnosed restrictive AN June 2010 age 13. Initially weight restored 2012. Relapse and continuously edging towards recovery. Treatment: multiple hospitalisations and individual and family therapy.
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Torie
The way to get her period back is food and more food and more weight. 

And plenty of dietary fats. xx

-Torie
"We are angels of hope, of healing, and of light. Darkness flees from us." -YP 
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ValentinaGermania
As long as her periods is missing and her AN behaviour is still there it is obvious that she needs to gain more. Brain recovery starts at a certain point when the body is fully nurished and nobody can tell you what exact number that will be. So go for state, not weight. Feed her until you see a change in behaviour and AN thoughts fade away.
Keep feeding. There is light at the end of the tunnel.
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Enn

You had mentioned in another thread, you were with Kelty for ED services. They have a good reputation and that you are currently waiting to be transferred to the community clinic. Is that with Canadian Mental Health services? If so, they will be properly trained in ED and FBT and other therapeutic modalities. Some have nurse practitioners of meds need to prescribed. At least that is how it works in Ontario.

what happened to seeing people at Kelty? When is the date for the community clinic?

When within yourself you find the road, the right road will open.  (Dejan Stojanovic)

Food+more food+time+love+good professional help+ATDT+no exercise+ state not just weight+/- the "right" medicine= healing---> recovery(--->life without ED)
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Muminhope
Thank you so much for your kind feedbacks and responses to my concerns. D was hospitalized in Kelty inpatient unit. She was asked to be discharged once she was weight restored without being given any transition period. This is a key reason that her weight was down rapidly after she’s discharged. Their staff admitted this issue. We have been transferred to our local community clinic. They are under Fraser mental health department. We have been scheduled to have medical appointment with a physician every two weeks but no family/individual therapist being appointed to my D so far. A psychiatrist in the clinic met with my D and said he could support my D’s medication request. But my D said she doesn’t need it at all. This morning my H found D hid a piece of kind bar in her right hand and he pointed it out. D denied to hide any food. We checked her hands and sleeves but found nothing. She said she ate it. I find that she becomes a magician now. The food just disappeared at a glance in front of our eyes. D was angry at us because we don’t believe she ate that piece of bar. But finally she agreed to have one more yogurt to compensate that missing piece of kind bar and promised that if same doubt we have next time she will take one more.
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ValentinaGermania
Muminhope wrote:
D was hospitalized in Kelty inpatient unit. She was asked to be discharged once she was weight restored without being given any transition period. This is a key reason that her weight was down rapidly after she’s discharged. Their staff admitted this issue.


This is one of the most popular reasons we see for relapses here. No transition period, no contract, no plan for a safety net.
Other ones are not enough weight (when professionals think that just not underweight is enough) and giving back freedom and control too early. Try to avoid that and bring her back on path. End of hospitalisation is not recovery.
Keep feeding. There is light at the end of the tunnel.
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