F.E.A.S.T's Around The Dinner Table forum

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EASL
hi all - 
looking for some shared experience here. D is AN - was purging but gave that up for Lent. 16 days so far so good. Her weight is still going down and this week we’ve put our efforts into more calories per day hoping for gain at next weeks weigh in. Daily goal is 2300 - on day 4 of meeting that. 

New EE twist is daughter refuses to speak to me at all. I don’t know if this is perhaps a ‘coping’ mechanism or a trade with ED. I met her for lunch at school she ate everything in 30 minutes and then went back to school. Should I push for communication or just accept this as the price for her eating 700 cals in one go? It is really unpleasant / but what isn’t whit AN? 

Thanks. 
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AUSSIEedfamily
If food (medicine) is going in then keep going. Not easy to do. Because your D does not speak to you does not stop you talking to her. View it that she has temporaly lost her voice. Its kind of like that as your real D wants to communicate but ED wont let her. Its very hard for them but doing it with the kindness compasion and empathy from the parent helps them overcome the ED. "Fake it until you beat it"!
ED Dad
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scaredmom
Hi EASL,
She gave up purging for Lent!! That is amazing.(gold star!!) As for 2300 calories is there away to get it to 3000 soon? I note from a previous post she was at 2000 cal 22 days ago. I think that will help obviously to get her weight up quicker and her brain better sooner. 
It is ok if she ignores you right now. I know it does not feel good for you, and I agree with AUSSIEedfamily, that you keep talking to her. Just niceties and non ED or food related. She will come around. Her ED has to do that in order for her to eat. I hope that makes some sort of sense. Yes, like you note it is a trade with ED. I like that. 
Some have found texting them  helpful. They open up better , via the texts, as it is not directly face to face. 

XXX
Food+more food+time+love+good professional help+ATDT+no exercise+ state not just weight+/- the "right" medicine= healing---> recovery(--->life without ED)
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EASL
I would love to get her to 3000 but she’s not there yet. I think we’re just in an ED stand off. Her ‘uniqueness’ is she can sit down and eat a meal. However snacks are very hard because she sees that as extra food. I’m trying to get meals to be over 700 calories but it is really hard. I’m sad for her because she’s been consistently above 1700 for 2 weeks with no purging and is still losing weight. Her skin looks better but that’s the only sign nutrition is going in. 
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scaredmom
So what is she eating? We can help you get the calories up. 
Let us know.
XXX
Food+more food+time+love+good professional help+ATDT+no exercise+ state not just weight+/- the "right" medicine= healing---> recovery(--->life without ED)
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EASL
Today:
breakfast: blueberry muffin (400 cals) 25g of nuts, banana, 3 med strawberries and 300 ml if semi-skim milk. 

Lunch: portion of crisps, 1/3 of a cucumber, ham& cheese panini grilled in 15g of butter with 15g of full fat mayo

Dinner: salmon w hoisin sauce, sautéed vegetables in olive oil, brown rice (was not completed), 300ml of milk (still working to get that in)

snacks: 1/2 of a nut-free buzzing bar (200 cals), 2 shortbread biscuits. 

This is is my typical day 650-800/meal and 2 snacks around 200. 
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mtkmbc4
Just a few ideas:

Can you gradually add heavy cream by the spoonful to her milk until it is full fat (4% milk fat)?

other ideas: make the muffins homemade, same size, but add butter and finely chopped nuts to the batter to increase calories.

butter both sides of the bread for sandwiches (only works for grilled sandwiches), add extra slices of meat and cheese to the sandwich or ask the deli/grocer to slice the pieces thicker. Buy larger loaves of bread or buy unsliced and slice thicker pieces at home.
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Foodsupport_AUS
Right now she won't see you as anything other than in opposition to her ED, unfortunately the best way forward is working on increasing that intake. Many will lose on 1700 per day, and won't gain adequately till on 3000 or more per day. The best way forward is being matter of fact about what must be done. I agree with shifting to full fat milk, add some chocolate for even more calories. Add oil/butter/coconut milk to the rice it soaks in well and or make mashed potato with just butter (no milk) again. Larger slices of bread can be helpful - having looked at standard bread packs you can add in 200 cal depending on the slices, grain breads can add more, those seeds have some great fats. 
D diagnosed restrictive AN June 2010 age 13.5. Weight restored July 2012. Relapse and now clawing our way back. Treatment: multiple hospitalisations and individual and family therapy.
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Ronson
Texting really can work well for communication. I still text if something ‘scary’ is going to happen - so tonight we were going out and I wanted her to have a drink while we were out and I text my expectation.  If I’d said it she would have argued, by text it seems to work.  D also barely spoke to me when things were at their worst.  Unfortunately Ed has to blame someone and that’s us.  It does pass though - now we have a good relationship.  

Can you do a pudding after tea ? White rice instead of brown.  Add oil to the salmon when cooking?  We aim for around 1300 calories for our evening meal including pudding.  Maybe a side of garlic bread.  Remember she will hate it whatever you serve so you may as well add the calories 
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scaredmom
I Think I see  a bit of a counting theme in your meals (such as exact amounts). I wonder how we can help you to break that. I would suggest no fruits and use fruit sauces ie apple sauce and add in oil. But the banana is a good one at about 100 cal. 
I Do worry if you measure exact amounts it will get you and her stuck. Or the 300 ml milk. I suggest larger and different glasses and plates all the time to make it harder for d to measure. My d did that and it was hard to get rid of counting and using the same ramekin for her grapes etc. And the same glass for milk but once we did it, it was easier to increase volumes and calories.

i still have that ramekin and look at it with melancholy.😔 

XXX
Food+more food+time+love+good professional help+ATDT+no exercise+ state not just weight+/- the "right" medicine= healing---> recovery(--->life without ED)
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tina72
EASL wrote:
hi all - 
looking for some shared experience here. D is AN - was purging but gave that up for Lent. 16 days so far so good. Her weight is still going down and this week we’ve put our efforts into more calories per day hoping for gain at next weeks weigh in. Daily goal is 2300 - on day 4 of meeting that. 

New EE twist is daughter refuses to speak to me at all. I don’t know if this is perhaps a ‘coping’ mechanism or a trade with ED. I met her for lunch at school she ate everything in 30 minutes and then went back to school. Should I push for communication or just accept this as the price for her eating 700 cals in one go? It is really unpleasant / but what isn’t whit AN? 

Thanks. 


You will see no weight gain on 2300 calories a day. They need much more to gain weight. So you need to increase that. No semi skimmed milk. Change that to full fat. Change it into the semi skimmed container if needed 🙂. Make home made muffins, slightly larger with more ingredients. Home made food is great as they cannot check calories. Serve porridge on another day for breakfast, that is great to hide butter and cream in it. Start to serve puddings after dinner and lunch if she is not great with snacks. Serve a late night smoothie or milkshake (homemade), with that you can easily get another 500 calories in. Vegetable and fruits on minimum, they only fill the stomach and give you nothing.
"I would love to get her to 3000 but she’s not there yet." She will never be there. She will never like it. so go through it as fast as you can. It is only delaying the suffering if you wait. You need to fight that through anyway so make the fight worth it. No snack below 300-500 calories. No meal below 700. She will fight 500 the same as 200.

For not talking to you: AN hates you because you are fighting her and you get that back at the moment. You are the enemy but that is positive. If you see the flak you are over the target we say here. Keep talking to her although she does not reply. Text her even if she does not reply. Give her little presents or send her cards even if you get no reaction. I did all that when my d was in IP because she did not communicate with us and I was very sure that she threw away all these things and deleted the messanges without even reading them. But when she came home I saw that she collected every single item and kept every single message. Show her you love her although she does not give anything back.
Keep feeding. There is light at the end of the tunnel.
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tina72
I have a problem with dictionary, can someone please explain to me what "gave that up for lent" means?
Keep feeding. There is light at the end of the tunnel.
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yellowcaty
Hi Tina
During Lent (the 40 days leading up to Easter) many people give up something or take something new on. It might be chocolate or alcohol or something like that they give up.  For Christians it reflects Jesus’ time in the wilderness. For some now it wouldn’t be for religious reasons it would be more something that most people do. 
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tina72
Ah, thanks yellowcaty, now I got it. "Fastenzeit" in German. Good morning by the way! 😁

That makes me rethink that, EASL. Giving up purging is a very hard thing, are you sure she really DID that or did she just say it to you? Did you control she is really not purging any more? I can hardly believe that someone is able to say "I will give that up tomorrow for lent". It is an addiction. Normally very hard to stop...
Keep feeding. There is light at the end of the tunnel.
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EASL
Thank you for all the comments. On giving up purging, I am suspicious, but we monitor her at home 100% and I’ve seen no signs. We had been monitoring before Lent and I think we had reduced the frequency so she might have been able to really stop. Nonetheless I still am not 100% certain. 

I appreciate all the calorie addition suggestions. I find myself fearful of my daughter and as such probably not pushing as much as I could. As she drinks semi skim I am fearful she will reject whole. I know this isn’t helpful and the more I can get in the more likely she will improve. I will try. I appreciate the support. I have 2 other children and my AN D tries to peg her good to theirs and I find it difficult to push her to eat more. My failure not hers, I know. 
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scaredmom
EASL, 
We all his the calories and did not tell our kids. Does your d watch the preparation of food?
i have three kids too and would plate for the family . Dad got the most hers was really more and son had about the same. I put theirs on the table first, hers looked less piled  higher and theirs spread out. Sometimes she took her brothers but he needed to gain and so his was the same as hers anyway.

If you want, we can help you get over some of the struggles or worries you are having getting more into her. Remember that we have been there too and there are so many creative ways. Let us know how we can help. 
XXX
Food+more food+time+love+good professional help+ATDT+no exercise+ state not just weight+/- the "right" medicine= healing---> recovery(--->life without ED)
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scaredmom
Also no failure here it is a bad word 😊it is feedback. We are all learning even two years later. 😉
XXX
Food+more food+time+love+good professional help+ATDT+no exercise+ state not just weight+/- the "right" medicine= healing---> recovery(--->life without ED)
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tina72
EASL wrote:
Thank you for all the comments. On giving up purging, I am suspicious, but we monitor her at home 100% and I’ve seen no signs. We had been monitoring before Lent and I think we had reduced the frequency so she might have been able to really stop. Nonetheless I still am not 100% certain. 

I appreciate all the calorie addition suggestions. I find myself fearful of my daughter and as such probably not pushing as much as I could. As she drinks semi skim I am fearful she will reject whole. I know this isn’t helpful and the more I can get in the more likely she will improve. I will try. I appreciate the support. I have 2 other children and my AN D tries to peg her good to theirs and I find it difficult to push her to eat more. My failure not hers, I know. 


We  also plate her for the whole family like in restaurant and it is not allowed to change things on plate. If she wants to peg something to her siblings I would tell her that any change on the plate will mean that you will add double to the next meal.
Try to add 1/4 whole milk to the semi skimmed and increase it slowly. If she is not drinking it you need something else to sneak in, like a smoothie or a milkshake. That would be in my eyes the better solution as you need to add a lot more calories and you will not get far with only changing to full fat milk. It is more a sign for AN: We do not buy any semi skimmed, half fat, diet or low fat stuff. Greek yoghurt, cream yoghurt, double fat cheese, such things are needed in your fridge now.

Do not fear something that AN is afraid of. It is totally normal to be able to eat all that you serve. You ask no unhuman things from her. You only ask her to eat what you serve and to get healthy again.
Keep feeding. There is light at the end of the tunnel.
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EASL
Freeze out has turned to pure rage/attempted self harm. We had to tell her she couldn’t go away on an overnight school trip (6 nights away out of the country). I understand her disappointment but now I fear she’ll just refuse to eat bc she feels she has nothing to live for. Advice please. 
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tina72
Try to blame it on ED. It is not your fault and not hers but this disease keeps her away from having a normal life and not you.
Keep her safe. Supervision 24/7, sleep with her if needed.
Try to distract her. Can you do something with her that she enjoys and CAN do?

We had to tell our d that she could not go to the statements ride with her class 1,5 years ago. It was 6 months after IP and she was not able to do that. Then she fought it and was really angry with us but today she says that it was the right decision and that she could not have managed to eat there alone.
Try to get through this rage. It will not be the first and not be the last one I fear.
Remember if you see ED you are normally doing something RIGHT. It is needed to show ED the boundaries. No recovery no school trips.
Keep feeding. There is light at the end of the tunnel.
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scaredmom
This too shall pass. 
You did the right thing and it will blow over. Just a bit of time.
So just stay with her and keep her safe. Distraction, distraction, distraction. 
Many of us had to take away school trips.
i know it feels so horrible right now.
I felt it was helpful for me to know, at the beginning, that it gets worse before it gets better and it is part of getting to the other side. It would be more worrying if she was calm and internalizing.
XXX
Food+more food+time+love+good professional help+ATDT+no exercise+ state not just weight+/- the "right" medicine= healing---> recovery(--->life without ED)
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EASL
Thanks for all the support today. After 4 hours of screaming/tears/anger self-harm from scratching and hair pulling...she ate all her dinner..2 tortillas w steak (fried in olive oil), cheddar cheese and retried beans with added olive oil plus tortilla chips and guacamole. She also ‘dealt’ with the fact my plate had less than hers. She hates her life and feels like she’s a freak with no friends. We weigh in on Tuesday - neutral would be fine - 100g would feel like the lottery.

the thought that ‘if we are seeing ED we are doing something right’ is soul supporting. 
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Mamaroo
You did great today! It's wonderful that she ate despite the screaming, now you have less to fear. Just keep on swimming.
D became obsessed with exercise at age 9 and started eating 'healthy' at age 9.5. Restricting couple of months later. IP for 2 weeks at age 10. Slowly refed for months on Ensures alone, followed by swap over with food at a snails pace. WR after a year at age 11 in March 2017. View my recipes on my YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKLW6A6sDO3ZDq8npNm8_ww
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scaredmom
She ate!! That is a win!
EASL:1
ED:0
XXX
Food+more food+time+love+good professional help+ATDT+no exercise+ state not just weight+/- the "right" medicine= healing---> recovery(--->life without ED)
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EASL
Thanks everyone. New day new efforts! I feel I finally ‘understand’ the quantity she needs - I don’t know why this has taken me 2 months to learn. 

New task - how do I help her believe her life will get better? She can get through a meal - she will tell us - snidely - she’s the only one who can do it - and she does using whatever mental mantras she has. But she doesn’t have any hope and only sees the road to recovery as painful. She is so tired of feeling sad and worthless. 

What worked for you to get your child to believe there could be a better future? She’s off school in a week and will be home for 26 days - lots of food (hopefully) and I hope she might see there could be a better life. 
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