F.E.A.S.T's Around The Dinner Table forum

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Faddywrite
Huge thanks for all the support Ive had on here recently. We have decided to statt introducing fear foods. Last night I put half a small naan bread on my daughters plate of curry. She wasnt happy about eating curry as the paste has some sugar in it. I added extra veg though. Part way through she asked why she had naan as well as rice I replied weve just given you half. She then ate it all silently despite having told me earlier she wouldnt! Last night my hubby duggested fish n chips for tea todau and I saw my d look v anxiously at me. I said she can have hers with less battee if she likes. This morning she immediately asked me not to make her have fish n chips later as she gad a choclate brownie last Saturday. I said you csn just have a few chips not a big pile. She said no not eating it. She then said how about she makes herself padta and tuna. I said no we need to all have fish tonight but she csn have some peas in the side. She said no. I just said lets sort it out later dont worty and she hss only asked ne once again so far. Expecting a bad response later. Is this ok to make her have fish and chips. Last timr she had it was in Auust on holiday when she hadnt had any other fatty food for a few days and wouldnt even drink anything but water. Dreading dinner time.
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deenl
Is this ok to make her have fish and chips.QUOTE]

It's more than OK, it's essential. It's entirely normal for kids to eat what their parents serve up for dinner. Don't lose sight of that.

What you do need is plan A, B and C ready in case she does refuse the meal. Run through scenarios with your husband so you both knows exactly what you are going to do if the going gets tough. Have you already done this? Could we help you brainstorm?

You've made a great start. Keep your nerve.

Wishing you strength and courage,

D
2015 12yo son restricting but no body image issues, no fat phobia; lost weight IP! Oct 2015 home, stable but no progress. Medical hosp to kick start recovery Feb 2016. Slowly and cautiously gaining weight at home and seeing signs of our real kid.

May 2017 Hovering around WR. Mood great, mostly. Building up hour by hour at school after 18 months at home. Summer 2017 Happy, first trip away in years, food variety, begin socialising. Sept 2017, back to school FT first time in 2 years. [thumb] 2018 growing so fast hard to keep pace with weight
  • Swedish proverb: Love me when I least deserve it because that's when I need it most.
  • We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence Recovery, then, is not an act but a habit. Aristotle.
  • If the plan doesn't work, change the plan but never the goal.
  • We cannot control the wind but we can direct the sail.
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Faddywrite
Thankyou yes I need to think of plan b and c quickly!!
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Ronson
Hi - is it takeaway fish and chips or homemade ? If homemade I would just serve it with the expectation she will eat it - have extra in case she throws it (my d did this a lot to start). If takeaway you will need to think of another plan b if she throws. Good luck
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Faddywrite
Takeaway we rarely have it.
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tina72
An idea for plan B:
Chose something nearly similar to fish and chips, maybe you have some chicken nuggets in the freezer?
If they have to chose between two things they both do not really want to eat they sometime chose the less frightening...

And hooray for naan bread!

And yes, it is o.k. to make her have fish and ships! That is a totally normal meal. Everyone else would love to eat that.
I am quite sure your d inside wants to eat it, but ED doesn´t allow. So stick to it. No excuses, no extras, no negotiation. You decided to have fish and chips today and that is what she will have. Serve her a small portion on a big plate so it will look VERY small.
Keep feeding. There is light at the end of the tunnel.
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tina72
"I said she can have hers with less battee if she likes."
"I said you csn just have a few chips not a big pile."
"I said no we need to all have fish tonight but she csn have some peas in the side."

To much discussion. That leeds to nothing. You will never hear a "yes, that way I can do it" from her.

" I just said lets sort it out later dont worty and she hss only asked ne once again so far."

That is a much better reaction.

What is "battee" by the way?
Keep feeding. There is light at the end of the tunnel.
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tina72
Idea for plan C:
Prepare a fruit smoothie with rapeseed oil in it as replacement. If you do not need it, you can keep it in the fridge for tomorrow morning or freeze it for later use.
Keep feeding. There is light at the end of the tunnel.
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Ronson
It will be batter Tina - we have fish with batter and deep fried - it is lovely.

Yes of takeaway have a plan b. I would plate what she would have had in the summer last year - fish and chips and not negotiate that.

Good luck - I hope it goes well - we haven’t tried takeaway yet - just McDonald’s. I am considering Chinese takeaway - but not asking what she wants - just putting it out.

R
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tina72
Oh, so the batter is the best of that fish and chips! At least for the parents [wink]. Thanks for the explanation!

I cross my fingers for your chinese takeaway, Ronson. Would love to pop in and have some with you [biggrin].

Keep feeding. There is light at the end of the tunnel.
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Ronson
You are more than welcome any time Tina - I’m holding off a bit - we had a bit of a stress night and ed raised its ugly head again so I’m going to have a few more weeks of consolidation before pushing something new
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tina72
Sounds good idea. Tell us when you had it!
I am quite impressed that you already did Mc D. It took us more than 1,5 years to get there...

And be careful with what you say, I may really come to UK sometimes in future! I would so love to meet you all...

Have a nice weekend!
Keep feeding. There is light at the end of the tunnel.
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Faddywrite
I like thr small portion idea! She is asking me alot now to not have chips as she wanys a treat at a family tea we are going to.on Sat and says she cant if we make her have chips. Feel so bad.
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tina72
Stay strict with it! There is not ONE SANE REASON why she should not have fish and chips AND the treat at the family tea. Tell her she is sick and she will need to have both to get better. That is what the professionals said to you. And then change the topic. Try not to engage in any discussion, you will lose that!

I know that you feel bad now but imagine how good you will feel after winning the first battle of that war!!!
Keep feeding. There is light at the end of the tunnel.
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Ronson
Please don’t feel bad - it is the ed making her feel this way and not you - you are trying to reintroduce normal eating and normal eating is to have a chippy tea on a Friday and still have chips at a family tea on a sat. I try to focus on what was normal for my d before and will comment to that effect.

Good luck - I hope it goes well

And Tina you will be able to do a tour of the uk with all the people you have supported on here
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tina72
Normal eating, as Ronson said, that is the target. Nothing more.
You are not asking something strange or unhealthy or dangerous from her. You are asking her to do the most normal thing for a british girl - eat fish and chips.

If you will make her at least eat one bit of fish and one bit of chips more than she was prepared to eat that will be a victory for you.
Show ED where the front door is! You can do that!
Keep feeding. There is light at the end of the tunnel.
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scaredmom

HI Faddywrite,
That is great about the naan!

I can tell you what we did for fear foods. We had a lot at the beginning. My D did not like to be "surprised". If I discussed it with her first a few days ahead:"We need to have X this week. We will have that on Wednesday" D would be upset, and very anxious but the huge outbursts were a bit better at the time. She knew I would not back down and that she had to eat it. My D did not like it if we praised her for any food eaten. She would be silent, we kept the discussion at the dinner table "happy" so to speak. I could not look at her. She looked to her dad for support. He would just nod and smile. Some have had to wrap their arms around the child to feed too, in general, not necessarily for the fear foods. 
I have just bumped up a thread from toothfairy, who has some great videos/articles etc..

Some just gave the foods, others laddered. It is very important to tackle this as the goal is really normal eating without fear. 
We found the quieter we were the better for D. Do not negotiate- hard in the moment as you really want them to understand and they can't. When D tried to ask "how much will I need to eat" prior to a fear food I would just look at her and say that "we will see" or "it will be OK" something very noncommittal.
I am very pleased about the fish and chips! Hope it goes well!
XXX

 

When within yourself you find the road, the right road will open.  (Dejan Stojanovic)

Food+more food+time+love+good professional help+ATDT+no exercise+ state not just weight+/- the "right" medicine= healing---> recovery(--->life without ED)
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Faddywrite
tina72 wrote:
"I said she can have hers with less battee if she likes."
"I said you csn just have a few chips not a big pile."
"I said no we need to all have fish tonight but she csn have some peas in the side."

To much discussion. That leeds to nothing. You will never hear a "yes, that way I can do it" from her.

" I just said lets sort it out later dont worty and she hss only asked ne once again so far."

That is a much better reaction.

What is "battee" by the way?


I see what you mean. It's mainly the fat in the chips and batter she's scared of eating. I may do her peas though, as that may help with eating the rest. I will have a back up if she becomes very resistant and throws it away or something, I have fishfingers and won't serve all the chips at once.

Thankyou. I would have preferred to start with a more simple challenge but after she ate the naam bread we thought let's just stop walking on eggshells and go for it. In fact, the very first tie I discovered my d's low weight was while we were eating fish and chips at a party she hadn't wanted to come to. In the middle of the party I got a call from her panicking that she had lost a large amount of weight. She weighed 40kg
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Faddywrite
Ronson wrote:
It will be batter Tina - we have fish with batter and deep fried - it is lovely.

Yes of takeaway have a plan b. I would plate what she would have had in the summer last year - fish and chips and not negotiate that.

Good luck - I hope it goes well - we haven’t tried takeaway yet - just McDonald’s. I am considering Chinese takeaway - but not asking what she wants - just putting it out.

R


Yes I was wondering if fish n chips was too much for a frst try at refeeding. But when my hubby suggested it last night and I saw her anxious face, I thought you know, there's never going to be a perfect time or a perfect food to try first, so let's just go for it supportively and kindly but firmly. I have a week off for half term, so can do some nice things with my daughter. She wanted to look round the food section of Marks and Spencer and I noticed how anxious she becomes around food in shops, it all screams eating disorder to me, no matter what Camhs have said about it not being diagnosable (twice!) just possible autism. 
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Faddywrite
scaredmom wrote:

HI Faddywrite,
That is great about the naan!

I can tell you what we did for fear foods. We had a lot at the beginning. My D did not like to be "surprised". If I discussed it with her first a few days ahead:"We need to have X this week. We will have that on Wednesday" D would be upset, and very anxious but the huge outbursts were a bit better at the time. She knew I would not back down and that she had to eat it. My D did not like it if we praised her for any food eaten. She would be silent, we kept the discussion at the dinner table "happy" so to speak. I could not look at her. She looked to her dad for support. He would just nod and smile. Some have had to wrap their arms around the child to feed too, in general, not necessarily for the fear foods. 
I have just bumped up a thread from toothfairy, who has some great videos/articles etc..

Some just gave the foods, others laddered. It is very important to tackle this as the goal is really normal eating without fear. 
We found the quieter we were the better for D. Do not negotiate- hard in the moment as you really want them to understand and they can't. When D tried to ask "how much will I need to eat" prior to a fear food I would just look at her and say that "we will see" or "it will be OK" something very noncommittal.
I am very pleased about the fish and chips! Hope it goes well!
XXX

 

Tank you. Yes, I'm wondering about warning my daughter about the next food we introduce this week sometime. Maybe a pudding a think or ice cream. She eats her meals well and snacks well, just barely anything like normal biscuits, cake puddings ice cream, chips, or other fatty foods. This why we struggle to gain weight. I think she may freak out when she realises we are changing our stance and not doing what she (or the ed) wants with eating anymore. I feel so sad for her.
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Faddywrite
mimi321 wrote:
When she tells you how bad she feels and is trying to negotiate, simply tell her you aren't going to give her anything that isn't safe for her, you know what she needs and to leave it to you. Getting you to feel bad will wear you down is an effective strategy of ED. Try to armour yourself against that by avoiding these discussions. Address it with a comment like I mentioned, then leave it at that and move on. I found it best to give my attention to her healthy side, try to redirect her or really focus on other interests/hobbies she has, give her heaps of attention for those types of things. These types of comments, try to give as little attention as possible to.


Thanks Mimi great advice. Yes, I plan to do a few nice things with my d this week while she is off school. She has worked so hard at school recently and especially with the ed to cope with as well, she needs a treat.xx
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sk8r31
Great work on stepping up to challenge fear foods!  It is essential to do this; how you go about it will depend on your d and your family & you will tweak and adjust as necessary.

As mentioned earlier, some parents find it easier to 'ladder' the fear foods, building up gradually to the most difficult.  And others just 'rip the band aid off' and go full steam ahead.  There is no one right way to tackle this issue.  Just do what seems best for your situation, and know that you may have to adjust or try a different strategy if necessary.

Our family came to the conclusion that we were going to have lots of anxiety and push back from our d no matter what we did, so easiest to move through this phase as quickly as possible.  I had the Winston Churchill quote in mind "When you're going through hell, keep going".  It helped.

We had a contract in place, which included fear foods.  And we used incentives, which I was against at the beginning...it was my h's idea, and economics is his field.  But our T agreed with h, and I reluctantly came on board with the idea.  And it worked beautifully!

This is what we did:
  • D made a list of her 'top 10' fear foods (whittled down from a much higher number)
  • She was served one of the foods on the list daily
  • We alternated between most feared and lesser feared on her list
  • When she was able to finish a fear food without complaint or difficulty 3 successive times, it was struck off the list
  • When everything was struck off the list, she rec'd an agreed upon 'reward/incentive', in our case it was financial
  • This took about 2 months to complete
Lots of other ways forward with fear foods, but this worked for us.

Sending strength and support,
sk8r31
It is good to not only hope to be successful, but to expect it and accept it--Maya Angelou
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Torie
It is great that you got her to eat the naan bread!  Yay, you!

Faddywrite: 1
ED: 0

Faddywrite wrote:
She wanted to look round the food section of Marks and Spencer and I noticed how anxious she becomes around food in shops, it all screams eating disorder to me, no matter what Camhs have said about it not being diagnosable (twice!) just possible autism. 


I, too, started refeeding without a diagnosis.  Looking back, I am certain my d would have ended up in hospital had I delayed even one more month waiting for the "experts" to sort it out.  As the good folks here before me said, "You are the mom (mum); you know what your d should be eating; you do not need anyone's permission to make that happen."

I'm not sure what Marks and Spencer is, but if it involves food shopping, I would suggest you keep her away from there with a gentle reminder that you are the mum and you will take care of the groceries.

Have you heard the saying, "Food is her medicine"?  Personally, I would not say that to my kid because 1. Who wants to take medicine? I think that reinforces the idea that eating food is an awful experience, and 2. unlike any other disease, she did not want to recover.  But for ME, it was really helpful to keep in mind that food really was her medicine.  What would you do if she had cancer and needed medicine for that?  Surely we would require her to take that medicine.

Have you seen this video?  It was such a help to me xx:


-Torie
"We are angels of hope, of healing, and of light. Darkness flees from us." -YP 
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Faddywrite
sk8r31 wrote:
Great work on stepping up to challenge fear foods!  It is essential to do this; how you go about it will depend on your d and your family & you will tweak and adjust as necessary.

As mentioned earlier, some parents find it easier to 'ladder' the fear foods, building up gradually to the most difficult.  And others just 'rip the band aid off' and go full steam ahead.  There is no one right way to tackle this issue.  Just do what seems best for your situation, and know that you may have to adjust or try a different strategy if necessary.

Our family came to the conclusion that we were going to have lots of anxiety and push back from our d no matter what we did, so easiest to move through this phase as quickly as possible.  I had the Winston Churchill quote in mind "When you're going through hell, keep going".  It helped.

We had a contract in place, which included fear foods.  And we used incentives, which I was against at the beginning...it was my h's idea, and economics is his field.  But our T agreed with h, and I reluctantly came on board with the idea.  And it worked beautifully!

This is what we did:
  • D made a list of her 'top 10' fear foods (whittled down from a much higher number)
  • She was served one of the foods on the list daily
  • We alternated between most feared and lesser feared on her list
  • When she was able to finish a fear food without complaint or difficulty 3 successive times, it was struck off the list
  • When everything was struck off the list, she rec'd an agreed upon 'reward/incentive', in our case it was financial
  • This took about 2 months to complete
Lots of other ways forward with fear foods, but this worked for us.

Sending strength and support,
sk8r31


Hi thanks so much for your advice, I love the list of fear foods idea as my d is very logical and loves order. I may try that once we've got going as I also like that idea of being very transparent about the refeeding. She has been begging me to cave in but I have told her she has to eat fish and chips, even if I do a few veggies for her and she has a light batter 9she normally had that anyway.) She gave all the reasons why she can't have them and kept digging around for new ones but I think she knows I won't give in now. Not happy but we will see how it goes. She may well respond well if we tell her the ed is preventing her from enjoying a wide range of foods and that we need to gradually reintroduce.  
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scaredmom
Torie,
Marks and Spencers ( I have heard it called "Marks and Sparks" too) is a great department store with great foods (frozen too) great clothes for everyone and home stuff. GREAT FOOD!
https://www.marksandspencer.com/ca/?ef_id=WEi3BgAABT3kXRss:20181026160707:s&extid=ps_bing_CA_Brand_MarksandSpencer_Exact
We used to have one near me, but alas, only lasted less than 10 yrs!
I loved it! 
XXX
When within yourself you find the road, the right road will open.  (Dejan Stojanovic)

Food+more food+time+love+good professional help+ATDT+no exercise+ state not just weight+/- the "right" medicine= healing---> recovery(--->life without ED)
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