F.E.A.S.T's Around The Dinner Table forum

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gentlesupport Show full post »
Havanese
I personally don’t think you should lie about what’s in your child’s food. It leads to problems once they’re weight restored and making their own food choices but still sick. You no longer would be adding in hidden calories but your child won’t know that they were ever there and will, as a result, believe they need to eat less than they really do in order to maintain their weight. For example if you previously would make pasta for your child and add in 200 calories worth of olive oil without their knowledge they would have choose to have less noodles as well as not having oil (unknowingly)  and therefore have too few calories to maintain (sorry that’s kind of confusing). At this point telling your child that they still need to eat the same amount of pasta because you used to hide oil will cause them to distrust you and will be a huge issue if you child ever relapses.
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Ellesmum
Havanese wrote:
I personally don’t think you should lie about what’s in your child’s food. It leads to problems once they’re weight restored and making their own food choices but still sick. You no longer would be adding in hidden calories but your child won’t know that they were ever there and will, as a result, believe they need to eat less than they really do in order to maintain their weight. For example if you previously would make pasta for your child and add in 200 calories worth of olive oil without their knowledge they would have choose to have less noodles as well as not having oil (unknowingly)  and therefore have too few calories to maintain (sorry that’s kind of confusing). At this point telling your child that they still need to eat the same amount of pasta because you used to hide oil will cause them to distrust you and will be a huge issue if you child ever relapses.



I see what you mean but would argue if they’re still sick they’re probably not weight restored and the fact they’re still sick means they shouldn’t be making choices about food.

I will try to find an article I read recently but the gist of it was we need to rethink our parenting long term, be in charge for a very long time, that a parents job is to feed their children. It seems also that it’s easy to underestimate just how long they need a huge amount of calories, not weeks or months but years. 

Its not lying, it’s giving them what they need for the good of their health, you don’t stop chemotherapy at the point a patient is beginning to feel better, you see the treatment through to the end for full recovery, same with antibiotics or any other medication.
Ellesmum
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deenl
Like most issues in our world there is no one answer but for me it is pretty straight forward.

While my son needs major calories to achieve nutritional rehabilitation, repair damage, catch up on growth and delayed puberty and cover hyper-metabolism, I will prepare all his meals and I will provide the balance of nutrients he needs. I generally do not lie (I have once or twice) but he doesn't ask and when he did I said I was giving him what he needed. I know that he knows that I make additions (a dry comment last week that I should stir the butter into the rice properly before serving did make me laugh inside) but he can pretend that he doesn't and that helps him stay calm. This was especially important in the early days.

I do not intend to give much control over eating until he is 'in training' for leaving home. He is thrilled as food prep etc bores him to tears. A big difference to the obsessive cooking he did while in the depths of illness. Hopefully, the need for many extra calories will be over but if not, then he will learn to make the additions himself if he wants to live away from home. I don't expect there to be much of a trust issue. In my eyes it is a far bigger betrayal of trust for a parent to know that their kid needs extra nutrition but not to provide it. I do not feel guilty and I think that will transfer to him when I say with a shrug that I am his parent and I was fulfilling one of the basic functions of parenthood by ensuring adequate nutrition. What else would I do? 

I think this debate is massively influenced by therapists who are basing their advice on 1. the theory of separation from parents in the teenage years. We all know that our kids all get there in the end but not on a typical timetable. 2. theoretical points of view they learn in training that have nothing to do with the day to day lived reality 3. remnants of old ED theories that have been debunked but still subconsciously play a role. They are brainwashing our kids into believing that we are betraying their trust. In actual fact it is an ENORMOUS betrayal of parental trust to allow our kids to wallow in an illness that causes physical, emotional, psychiatric, social, educational, medical damage without doing absolutely everything we can to get them back to health.

Jumping off the soapbox and taking some deep breaths now.

I do believe this debate is different if your child is a young adult or adult. Each parent must provide all the support they can in whatever way they can. I'll let you know in a few years if my opinion has changed. ðŸ˜‰

Warm wishes,
D
2015 12yo son restricting but no body image issues, no fat phobia; lost weight IP! Oct 2015 home, no progress. Medical hosp to kick start recovery Feb 2016. Slowly gaining at home, seeing signs of our real kid.

May 2017 Hovering around WR. Mood great, mostly. Summer 2017 Happy, first trip away in years, food variety, begin socialising. Sept 2017, back to school FT first time in 2 years. 2018 growing so fast hard to keep pace with weight. 2020 Off to university, healthy and happy.
  • Swedish proverb: Love me when I least deserve it because that's when I need it most.
  • We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence Recovery, then, is not an act but a habit. Aristotle.
  • If the plan doesn't work, change the plan but never the goal.
  • We cannot control the wind but we can direct the sail.
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ValentinaGermania
Havanese wrote:
I personally don’t think you should lie about what’s in your child’s food. It leads to problems once they’re weight restored and making their own food choices but still sick. You no longer would be adding in hidden calories but your child won’t know that they were ever there and will, as a result, believe they need to eat less than they really do in order to maintain their weight.


I though the same but it really was not true here.
First: without sneaking in calories I would NEVER EVER have gotten her WR.
Then: At WR we slowly started to reduce sneaking in things starting with Phase 2 and she saw that she will lose weight when she eats not enough and she learned slowly how much she needs to eat to maintain the weight on her own.
So no problems here with that at all.
Keep feeding. There is light at the end of the tunnel.
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Enn
Havanese wrote:
I personally don’t think you should lie about what’s in your child’s food. It leads to problems once they’re weight restored and making their own food choices but still sick. You no longer would be adding in hidden calories but your child won’t know that they were ever there and will, as a result, believe they need to eat less than they really do in order to maintain their weight. For example if you previously would make pasta for your child and add in 200 calories worth of olive oil without their knowledge they would have choose to have less noodles as well as not having oil (unknowingly)  and therefore have too few calories to maintain (sorry that’s kind of confusing). At this point telling your child that they still need to eat the same amount of pasta because you used to hide oil will cause them to distrust you and will be a huge issue if you child ever relapses.

Hello and welcome,
As you can see this is a very hot topic. People are very passionate about this.
The fact is we need to get our kids nutritionally rehabilitated by any means possible. I wonder if you can share how you have approached it with your child. We really  would like to get to understand your journey. As you can see the majority do feel they have to add nutrition.
The way I look at it, if your kid could  eat five steaks at a time that would be great, but ED kids can’t so we use less volume and more impact. A smaller “food print” per se.
At a restaurant we don’t ask what is in the food , we eat and enjoy. Our kids can’t so to make it easier for awhile and not forever is kind and compassionate.
i would suggest you start your own thread and ask all the questions you have. 
XXX
When within yourself you find the road, the right road will open.  (Dejan Stojanovic)

Food+more food+time+love+good professional help+ATDT+no exercise+ state not just weight+/- the "right" medicine= healing---> recovery(--->life without ED)
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ValentinaGermania
Just wanted to add that my d NEVER asked what is in the food I am cooking before ED moved in and that it is mostly ED who wants to know this.
A healthy kid falls into the kitchen, eats what is offered and runs out to play with his friends again.
Keep feeding. There is light at the end of the tunnel.
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deenl
tina72 wrote:
A healthy kid falls into the kitchen, eats what is offered and runs out to play with his friends again.


100% 

My nearly 18y/o is like this, ED son now like this, youngest son also like this.

This. is. normal.

BTW none of my kids have ever served their own food before ED forced my kid to. They were all absolutely perfectly happy to leave the work to mom (and sometimes dad) ðŸ˜† Of course, this is now slowly changing as oldest is getting ready to launch into his adult life. As it should.

Warm wishes,

D
2015 12yo son restricting but no body image issues, no fat phobia; lost weight IP! Oct 2015 home, no progress. Medical hosp to kick start recovery Feb 2016. Slowly gaining at home, seeing signs of our real kid.

May 2017 Hovering around WR. Mood great, mostly. Summer 2017 Happy, first trip away in years, food variety, begin socialising. Sept 2017, back to school FT first time in 2 years. 2018 growing so fast hard to keep pace with weight. 2020 Off to university, healthy and happy.
  • Swedish proverb: Love me when I least deserve it because that's when I need it most.
  • We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence Recovery, then, is not an act but a habit. Aristotle.
  • If the plan doesn't work, change the plan but never the goal.
  • We cannot control the wind but we can direct the sail.
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alfalfa
Not to make too much light but, if you’ve got a one-year old who doesn’t want to eat his dinner because ge suddenly hates all things orange, are you going to reason with the kid and explain why orange things are an important part of his diet? Probably not. You’re going to tell him that the sooon is an airplane and pop the carrots in his open mouth. Telling him the spoon is an airplane isn’t lying; it’s just using the tools you have to give your kid what he needs.

Malnourished brains aren’t too different from that baby’s. There’s no reasoning with or explaining something to someone in the grips of a restrictive eating disorder. You use the tools you have to give the child/adolescent/young adult what they need because they simply can’t. Later, when their brains are back on board and they’re ready and able to protect their own recovery, you can bring in the reasoning and the explaining in a way that’s age and ability appropriate.
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ValentinaGermania
Great explanation, alfalfa!
Keep feeding. There is light at the end of the tunnel.
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Sheep
Don't be too hard on Caregiver! We were told at FBT to be honest about food. If they can't trust us on that then what can they. But hey, who am I to say: I couldn't get my D to eat anything over and above what SHE had decided was ok. 
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ValentinaGermania
We do not say you must sneak in calories, sheep. If it works to be open and your d eats what is served without complain and is gaining every week that is wonderful. My d would not have been able to eat something if she has known that there is cream in it. Today she knows that there is creme in and she asks for that "as it tastes better".
There is no right or wrong with it. But parents who need to do that to get their kids WR should not be judged here. And parents that decide to be open should not be judged either.
Keep feeding. There is light at the end of the tunnel.
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deenl
Well put Tina
2015 12yo son restricting but no body image issues, no fat phobia; lost weight IP! Oct 2015 home, no progress. Medical hosp to kick start recovery Feb 2016. Slowly gaining at home, seeing signs of our real kid.

May 2017 Hovering around WR. Mood great, mostly. Summer 2017 Happy, first trip away in years, food variety, begin socialising. Sept 2017, back to school FT first time in 2 years. 2018 growing so fast hard to keep pace with weight. 2020 Off to university, healthy and happy.
  • Swedish proverb: Love me when I least deserve it because that's when I need it most.
  • We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence Recovery, then, is not an act but a habit. Aristotle.
  • If the plan doesn't work, change the plan but never the goal.
  • We cannot control the wind but we can direct the sail.
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mamabear
I would personally like to see this thread deleted. I think it’s in the same vain as “ parent blaming” and I for one am done with the “ debate”. 

My husband and and I saved our daughter’s life on our own. We had no “ team”. We had books and this forum 8 years ago. A lot has changed since then FOR THE BETTER. One of those things is that a high fat, high calorie, aggressive refeeding  with continual gain thereafter every year for years and a higher weight leads to strong recovery. Period. 

My kid was ten. But I can tell you that if I had to do this again at 18 ( which I realize is a totally different beast) I would STILL do magic plate and add in all the things I did before. Because the stress of “ knowing” what’s in the Dinner is more harmful than asking them to trust a parent to give them the medicine needed-  which is powerful. 

But then again- my daughter did just send me an awesome text telling me she admired me for being “ defiant and powerful” lol. 
Persistent, consistent vigilance!
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melstevUK
While I understand your sentiment mamabear - the thread is a reminder to us all that this forum is not to be used for criticising anyone, but to offer support and suggestions.  If anyone worries about trust between parent and child after recovery then they are wasting their time and worrying over the wrong things.  The relationship may be rocky when going through the journey - but perceived lies would readily be forgiven and seen as doing what was required to get the child through the illness at a later stage. 

We all do what we can in whatever way works for us - people can offer their views by all means, but should never use them as a means of criticising others.  That is a golden rule and maybe needs to be highlighted somewhere.  
Believe you can and you're halfway there.
Theodore Roosevelt.
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ValentinaGermania
I think mamabear does not understand why gentlesupport is allowed to post here although she is definitivly a (at least former) patient and other former patients were cancelled by the mods in past (I know a woman who asked for help for her friend here in 2017 and she was deleted after the 2nd post when she mentioned that she was a patient, too). I do not understand that, too.

I also think it is strange that in her profil there is written "other interested party" and not "caregiver" below "I am a" so maybe the d mentioned is an alibi (there was not any information about that d in her posts). I know that many sufferers read in this forum but we must be careful with them posting I think. She also said she is doing workshops about therapy so maybe a professional as well.
So I also think this is a fake profil and a harmful member. Please check that, mods.

The question how to change from sneaking in calories to open adding and wether sneaking in is needed or not is a good one but remember that new parents will start the thread with gentlesupports thoughts and that might really not be supportive.
Keep feeding. There is light at the end of the tunnel.
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mamabear
Tina72 yes
Persistent, consistent vigilance!
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Kali
Hi all,

As an update, the mods have been watching this thread all week and in addition to the passionate debate on the thread, it also sparked some interesting discussions for the mods!

Gentlesupport will no longer be posting here.

The lively discussion has really reinforced exactly why it is important for parents to take control and add as many calories as they need to in order to guide their children back to health. Sometimes parents may face providers who also tell them not to "sneak" calories in and this could be a helpful discussion for families who are new to eating disorders and being faced with that sort of feedback. There were some really thoughtful and informative replies and after some discussion, we have decided not to censor but to leave the thread up.

It is up to each individual family to choose what they think will help their loved one most and there have been a lot of really great suggestions and sharing of experiences on this thread about why it is a good idea to serve high calorie meals which can help weight restoration move along as quickly as possible.

And it is also important to note that many of the carers who endorsed high calorie refeeding on the thread now have recovered kids or kids in strong remission.

Have a wonderful weekend and stay warm!

warmly,

Kali
Food=Love
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ValentinaGermania
Great post, mimi321! I so remember you joining us last year and look how far you have come! It is so good to hear that your d is doing great.
Keep feeding. There is light at the end of the tunnel.
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