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Francie

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Reply with quote  #126 
Interestingly, two recovered ED sufferers I met in Al Anon were the ones who were most straight with me regarding my d's struggle with recovery. They were the ones who told me 'your daughter has to want to get better before she can get better', and 'she's not ready to get better' and that I could do little to help her until she is ready to get help. My d is now 20. This would not be the case if she was younger. When she was younger my h and I were in a much better position to influence her toward recovery but we wasted some of that opportunity due to an inability to get on the same page, and fear (mine) and denial (his).
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Francie

AUSSIEedfamily

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Reply with quote  #127 

Alanon was a saviour for my mother and Alateen and Alanon helped me a huge amount. My father was never able to become free from alcohol and died just before his 80th birthday with the death certificate noting as a result of long term effects of alcohol. Unfortunately, so many experiencing alcohol difficulties do not arrive at a moment of realisation of they need to make a step along a different path. Dad went to AA several times and stayed away from alcohol for periods of time especially when he lost his licence because of DUI then he stayed dry for quite a while.

What Alanon did for my mother was to find ways of dealing with dad that enabled her to stay married to & live with the man she was madly in love with despite his at times horrendus and bad behaviour. Away from the booze dad was a most loving, inteligent and inventive man.

I would agree that there are parts of Alanon and Alateen that dont fit whats needed for eating disorders. The big part for me was the stuff on how to do separation from the illness so that when dads horrendus/bad behaviour arrived when he was drunk I saw the illness and not my dad and I learnt how control my responses and actions when dad was doing drunk stuff. That ability really helped me when our D relapsed it let me keep a clear head when crap was going down.

Alanon or Alateen wont help you to get your loved one into treatment but there are parts of Alanon & Alateen that will let you deal with the crap times, while at the same time allow you to keep loving and supporting your loved one and your other relationships. What they have will help you to fend off, deflect, and ignore all the verbal abuse/vitriol and other abuse that happens.


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mjkz

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Reply with quote  #128 
Francie, I came to that same conclusion.  I was going to support my daughter when she was ready but I was not going to save her from the consequences of her choices.  I had forced her into treatment for years and years and I was not able to keep her well.  It was only after she found out what the world was really like (i.e. when mom and dad weren't there to buy her out of whatever trouble she got in or bail her out when she made bad choices), she realized she needed to change and that was enough for me.  I don't know that she would ever have been really ready to get well but she was at least willing to try to do things differently. 

A friend from Al-Anon also told me that the best place can't save a person who isn't ready and the worst place can save a person who is ready.  I know that held true in our case.
wheresmywand

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Reply with quote  #129 
Hi HEDWAP, 
I'm dying to know how you are getting on and if there are any bright spots for you.
Sending warm support and hope those cases of wine you bought are helping.

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17 yr old daughter dx RAN Jan 16, but starting restricting some months before that. Let go too early and now back home gaining weight again, slowly challenging fear foods and entrenched 'healthy, pure' eating habits and behaviours.
HateEDwithApassion

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Reply with quote  #130 

Can I first say that you are all the best?! Thank you for continuing to ask and care about our story even though I've been MIA on this site. I feel terrible - so many people give and give their care to me, and then I check out when I can't think about ED anymore. I'm back - thank you for your grace!

The bright spot is that my D is back in residential (what? how is that a bright spot?!) paying for half the deductible herself, paid for her plane ticket there, doing everything they ask of her, and with strong contingencies in place from her local team that she can only return to their care if she follows the residential protocol and all of it completely through to the end.

It's different this time - she asked to go and offered to pay. Feels she needed that level of care. First day she struggled to eat all of her meals there. Second day, she told my H that she was there to learn to eat again and so she might as well start eating. Ate everything. We were both quite amazed at her self-motivation, which was completely absent the first time. Her original team there took her back - she wanted to go back to them saying they helped her. We couldn't believe she said that after how she talked about them the first time, but she went back, apologized to them for wasting the opportunity the first time, and is now engaged. Going to all group things - trying, even when certain things don't seem helpful, to do everything and make the most of this.

She's admitted she's so tired of the ED but that it's roots run very deep and she's scared. She has a lot of self-hatred that she's felt since before the ED. That made me sad to hear. This was after two months of complete noncompliance, loneliness and depression here at home. We had to step back and just detach, knowing her team was on it, and no matter what leverage we used, she couldn't be moved. 

I've been going online to Al-Anon groups and will attend my first meeting on Monday, which I'm nervous and excited about. I'm also going to post here with a question for all of you - I've submitted an idea to a mental health blog for families and my suggestion was accepted! I'm going to write about the challenge of staying compassionate - and tips to do so - when your child doesn't want to - or can't - help themselves get well and stop their behaviors. In other words, how do we love well while staying well ourselves? Mental health issues have become a passion for me, and there's far too little out there to help us. So watch for my question posted and please share your thoughts if you choose! 😉 All names will be anonymous but I would love to include overall themes or comments in my article.

How are you all doing? I'm so grateful for your patience with me as I drop off the planet. I'm hoping now that my D is away for a bit to become more active here again and serve others, too. 

 


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19 yo D. AN - since about 15 years old. WR quickly - but the last four years have been tough. Since Sept. 2017, two residential stays, now in IOP, fighting a relapse. ED is hanging on, mental state not great, can't get her to remain at a weight long enough or high enough to see mental healing. She's on a gap year that will likely now turn into two.
HateEDwithApassion

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Reply with quote  #131 

mjkz - 
I absolutely love that last comment - about the best and worst places. I am a writer and just interviewed a recovered drug addict and alcoholic who received treatment and has been sober for 9 years. My last question to him was - what would you say to someone still in addiction about recovery. He just said - "there's nothing I can say that will move someone to consider recovery. They will only listen when they are ready. It's your choice. I had to come to a place where I either chose recovery or didn't, but it had to be my decision.

He also talked about how treatment isn't fun. It's not meant to be, but when you really want recovery, you do it even when it's not fun. Even when you don't want to. Because it's about the long game. That recovery is doing things that are scary. That is part of recovery. Otherwise their addictions/behaviors keep them from living life.

I wish the 12-step plan was more accessible for eating disorder patients after they get to a stable weight. There seems to be so much good there. But like you said and he said - you have to want it for yourself. 


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19 yo D. AN - since about 15 years old. WR quickly - but the last four years have been tough. Since Sept. 2017, two residential stays, now in IOP, fighting a relapse. ED is hanging on, mental state not great, can't get her to remain at a weight long enough or high enough to see mental healing. She's on a gap year that will likely now turn into two.
eternalhope

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Reply with quote  #132 
Dear HEDWAP, thank you for the update! It’s an amazing testament to so many wise words spoken above. I know how you feel about feeling guilty for not posting when so many people are so giving of their time and advice. I feel the same way too when I go MIA. That said, I check this forum daily looking for updates on how people are doing and for more ideas and understanding (and compassion) for this hobbile disease. Thank you to everyone for
all of your posts and to the wonderful moderators. Your work is so important. Your idea for your blog is great. It is hard to be compassionate when your house is getting trashed and you see your precious child with so much potential making bad choices that will only make them sicker or prevent recovery. Lord knows I keep reading up on things I can do because it’s so hard. So happy to hear she’s engaged now. What a wonderful sign. I’m assuming she’s back at ERC in Denver, and I’m glad they were willing to work with her again.
Sotired

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Reply with quote  #133 
I’m so glad to hear that d is invested in her own recovery.and that you have taken time to find resources to help you.thats more important than most people acknowledge.i hope that things continue to improve for you both🦋🌻
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Kali

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Reply with quote  #134 
Hi HateedwithaPassion,

Quote:
The bright spot is that my D is back in residential (what? how is that a bright spot?!) paying for half the deductible herself, paid for her plane ticket there, doing everything they ask of her, and with strong contingencies in place from her local team that she can only return to their care if she follows the residential protocol and all of it completely through to the end.


This is excellent news! I hope that she will make progress now that she seems to have stopped fighting the people who want to help her and is starting to have more insight into her situation.

Kali

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mjkz

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Reply with quote  #135 
HateED, that is absolutely wonderful news!!!!!  I was really hoping no news was good news from you and that has held true.

I hope this time is different.  Sometimes it takes things like getting kicked out and going back with a different attitude.  Also I've found my daughter often puts more effort and energy into things that she has to contribute too especially financially.  She hates to "waste" things and so paying for something she doesn't use or use well is just abhorrent to her.  Also it makes her an active part of the team.  She has more at stake now than before.  So glad to sign on and read this.

P.S. You can use 12 steps to keep them going strong when they come back.  My daughter did not only food addicts in recovery anonymous but also emotions anonymous.  Glad to hear you are trying Al-Anon.  If you try a group and don't like it, go to another group.  I can't suggest this loud enough.  Each group is different and individual.  Find a group you click with and find helpful and make that your home group.
Francie

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Reply with quote  #136 
Hi HateED,

 'We had to step back and just detach, knowing her team was on it, and no matter what leverage we used, she couldn't be moved.' 

Your voice is so strong in your post. I am very happy for you and your D. This is such good news. I am thinking of you and praying for you. Best of luck at your first Al Anon meeting. It will be fine. If the first one you walk into isn't a hit, try another one until you get one that works for you.

All best. XO


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Francie

wheresmywand

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Reply with quote  #137 
Hi Hate ED
Awesome news, a bright spot indeed!
Well done to everyone, this could be the one that does it - and it will nice to have your home to yourself without the drama as well.
Love the blog idea and will post something on that thread later

Best Wishes x

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17 yr old daughter dx RAN Jan 16, but starting restricting some months before that. Let go too early and now back home gaining weight again, slowly challenging fear foods and entrenched 'healthy, pure' eating habits and behaviours.
HateEDwithApassion

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Reply with quote  #138 

Hi all,

Just a quick update. My D is still in residential, but Friday let us know she's considering signing out again. She started out so motivated, but when the ED pushes back with deep depression because she can't use those behaviors, she loses traction and gives up. When ED is cornered, she panics and bolts.

There are big consequences to leaving this time - not just from us. Her DBT therapist made it a contingency that she finishes and does what she's asked. He won't see her anymore if she quits. Same for ED therapist and dietician, both she really likes. Yet she's still willing to leave. She also knows the money for this treatment, which is significant will not be reimbursed by us ever if she leaves. She knows all of this, and is still desperate to leave. That's how fricking strong this disease is.

She asked me to transfer money to her account so she can buy a plane ticket. I responded, No-sorry. She responded she has enough for a bus ticket. I said ok and that I would just talk to her later. I can't engage back and forth with her about this - it's like reasoning with a wall, so I'm not trying.

I'm praying for a miraculous intervention, where she'll rethink this flight response. What we do know is this - we are not going to threaten her to stay. If she leaves, she leaves. It's her life, her consequences. If she can't find a shred of motivation to keep going with all of those consequences, then what power do we have? However, if she does leave again, she will not live here again. We are not mad - just resigned. We know what will happen if she comes back and lives here. It's not good for her or for us.

I've accepted that our happy ending may be a long way off or may not happen. Or it might. 

 


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19 yo D. AN - since about 15 years old. WR quickly - but the last four years have been tough. Since Sept. 2017, two residential stays, now in IOP, fighting a relapse. ED is hanging on, mental state not great, can't get her to remain at a weight long enough or high enough to see mental healing. She's on a gap year that will likely now turn into two.
Francie

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Reply with quote  #139 
Hi HateEd, I'm so sorry to hear this. I will assume you used your DBT skills on her and tried motivational interviewing to get to the root of why she wants to leave? Play out the future a little bit so she knows where she'll be in a week or month after leaving? Does she have a place to land? I know it's not your place. Does she have a job to go to?

My d was also dropped by her T and dietician when she didn't follow through with PHP after returning home from residential last fall.

I am wondering if a call to Laura at http://www.circummensam.com/ would be helpful at this point? I'm sure other caregivers will respond.

I am thinking of you and hoping hopeful thoughts. XO

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Francie

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Reply with quote  #140 
Sorry to hear that she is struggling again, but just like you not so surprised. This is a strong and insidious illness. I am sure the center is also working hard at keeping her there, as they did previously. Thinking of you. 
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D diagnosed restrictive AN June 2010 age 13.5. Weight restored July 2012. Relapse and now clawing our way back. Treatment: multiple hospitalisations and individual and family therapy.
Kali

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Reply with quote  #141 
HateEdwithaPassion,

Sorry to hear your daughter is struggling with being in treatment again.

The language I used when my daughter begged to be able to leave the RTC before completing treatment was this:

"We will be happy to welcome you home when you have completed the program and your team says it is time for you to come home, but you cannot come home now."

I then spent some time talking to her about how I understood that it was the hardest thing she had ever had to do in her life, but really the best thing for her was to stay and listen to her drs. I also talked about her future life and some of the things she could do when she was feeling better, like traveling and school and spending time with friends.

I also let her team know about our conversation and asked them to please encourage her to finish treatment because I didn't feel she could be safe at home due to her suicidality.

She had no money of her own so even though technically she was old enough to sign herself out, where would she have gone and how would she have managed?

I hope that your daughter will decide to stay even though it is difficult.

warmly,

Kali




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eternalhope

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Reply with quote  #142 
I am so sorry to hear this. What a terrible disease. Hopefully she will understand the consequences and chose to stay there. I’m sure they are doing everything they can at the center to convince her to stay. Keeping you all in my prayers.
EDAction

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Reply with quote  #143 
Dear HateED,

My heart goes out to you.  I will keep hoping for you.

Keep us updated.

Thinking of you.


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DD diagnosed with anorexia at 14; FBT at home with the help of psychologist and medical dr; 3+ years later and doing well (knock on wood)
tina72

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Reply with quote  #144 
I cross my fingers that they make her stay. Thinking at you.
Send you a enormous hug from Germany.
Tina72
melstevUK

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Reply with quote  #145 
HateED,

I am so sorry and I really feel for you.  However, I may be in the minority but I simply cannot accept the response of the DBT therapist or that of the ED therapist and dietician.  I simply cannot understand their response, unless they are calling your d's bluff.

For me they should be saying - 'OK, you are struggling again, we think you need to stay and face all the torment that the treatment brings, running away will achieve nothing.  But we will be there to pick up the pieces again if you feel the need to run away'  - or something like that.

I am actually horrified by their response which, to me (and I have issues from childhood, have had lots of therapy over the years) smacks of a "mummy won't love you if you are naughty" type response which was very much a part of my childhood, and which never included the notion of unconditional love or unconditional acceptance.

I don't know what you say to your d to make her stay - other than something like 'We know it's tough but this is the only way forward.  However, you are still relatively young and some day you are going to find the strength to face this illness down'

I don't know what I would do in your shoes about taking her back home or not.  But I simply cannot accept the DBT therapist's approach as acceptable and I would be phoning to discuss it.

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HateEDwithApassion

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Reply with quote  #146 

Hi,

D is still in residential. 😉 Her new plan is returning home in a week to do PHP locally, which I'm not necessarily supporting. She wants to get out of there, so my instinct is her leaving to come here for PHP is an escape from the eating disorder being challenged. That she thinks she'll have more leeway here than there.

Her local team has okayed coming back here for PHP - except for her DBT therapist who told her "no". Today she texted and said she is coming back, so that means either 1) She is giving up her DBT therapist and the program and coming back 2) They talked again and came up with some sort of compromise and she'll still see him if she returns. I'm not sure since she doesn't have her phone much. I will be absolutely furious if she's leaving, knowing she'll be out of the DBT program. It's vital to her recovery, in my opinion. And she is close with her therapist - he is good, and she will struggle more without him and the skills group.

As for her DBT therapist, I think he's 100% right in this. He laid out his criteria before she left. This is a pattern for her. Go to treatment, engage for a bit, gets hard, quits engaging and either signs out, threatens to quit, or goes non-compliant with therapy, meds, etc. Comes home. Refuses to use recovery behaviors. Crashes. Goes back to treatment, repeat. For someone with heavy BPD traits - like my D - the hospital almost becomes an escape from dealing with the real world. Then when she has to actually give up the ED and use recovery behaviors, it's too hard, so she bails.

If he allows her to return to his care, he's reinforcing this pattern unintentionally. DBT skills talk about that. Don't reinforce the behavior you don't want. He gave her this set of guidelines, she's not complying with the preferred plan of the residential treatment team, he has to follow through. It totally sucks if that is what happens - and this is where my H and I may have to say that DBT is critical, so if leaving means you don't have DBT, you can't live here anymore - but he's right in the way he's handling it. [frown] 

I'll let you know...


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19 yo D. AN - since about 15 years old. WR quickly - but the last four years have been tough. Since Sept. 2017, two residential stays, now in IOP, fighting a relapse. ED is hanging on, mental state not great, can't get her to remain at a weight long enough or high enough to see mental healing. She's on a gap year that will likely now turn into two.
mjkz

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Reply with quote  #147 
HateED, sorry to hear she is struggling and running.  I totally agree with your team and you that letting her repeat this pattern is not helpful.  I would not allow my daughter to come home in the same situation if DBT was not going to be continued.  It is the only thing that really has helped give her the skills she needs to stop acting on every single little thought that comes into her head.  What has her team at ERC said?  Are they supporting coming home for PHP?  I think you said when she left that the only way she could move back home was if she finished the program there and was discharged.  I hope her DBT therapist holds true to what he has said because something has to break this cycle.  My thoughts are with you.
melstevUK

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Reply with quote  #148 
HateED,

Is d putting on weight and getting mealtime support as well as being in the DBT programme?  I assume so.  Does she know what she wants to do with her life post-recovery yet?  Are they helping find her strengths and interests as well?  

I certainly support that she stays in the programme rather than returning home to you because it appears she will go dowhill again, even if she is in PHP.  Do you think it is the weight gain which she fears most?  

I suppose for me, I would be trying to figure out exactly what she is running from - weight gain? Strict routine as opposed to being able to lie in bed all day?  No alcohol?  Maybe she herself doesn't know what she is running from - but the running and sense of wanting to escape are maybe the prime motivators here.  That action feels safe/exhilarating/addictive.  

It has been my experience that young people often do things simply because they can - with no idea of what they really want.  Running away seems to be part of the picture for your d right now.

I understand the DBT therapist's approach - but when impulsivity tends to be part of the picture with BPD, who is showing the unconditional care?

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HateEDwithApassion

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Reply with quote  #149 

Lots of patients leave to do PHP at home, so I don't think the residential team has a problem with it as long as the local team is on board. Her DBT therapist will still continue to see her if she finishes res properly, but he told her he feels she would be better off doing PHP there. She won't tell me why. My D just keeps saying she's so depressed there and would rather be depressed and in treatment at home. She never allows herself to push through the depression and quits/does things half-way when it gets to this point.

MelstevUK - great questions. My opinion is she is running from the weight gain and not being able to use other behaviors to manage her depression. I'm not sure she recognizes that or would admit it, but that's what I think. I think she's so adverse to any control/guidance/accountability, yet has no idea how to deal with this on her own.

Last time, PHP out of state where she is now didn't work well - she was kicked out. So, I'm not necessarily saying its the only best choice. When she decides she's not engaging any longer, it doesn't matter where it is. That's where we are now. I don't think she's engaging with therapy there anymore or with other residents. She's decided she's done and therefore, she doesn't try any more.

UCSD has a 5-day program in April. I just brought it up to my H. It's the only thing we haven't tried. Should we make that a requirement for her coming back to live here? Otherwise, I'm finally ready to encourage her to get a job within a month, find an apartment and manage her own life. I know that will mean a relapse, substance use to manage symptoms, etc. but I think we've done all we can. Can't lead her to water... 


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19 yo D. AN - since about 15 years old. WR quickly - but the last four years have been tough. Since Sept. 2017, two residential stays, now in IOP, fighting a relapse. ED is hanging on, mental state not great, can't get her to remain at a weight long enough or high enough to see mental healing. She's on a gap year that will likely now turn into two.
Kali

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Reply with quote  #150 
Hi HateEdwithaPassion,

The UCSD program sounds like it might be a good option to try for your family. We didn't try it but for many families it has seemed to help them better manage things at home.

Kali

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