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eternalhope

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Reply with quote  #101 
So happy to hear from you! I’m glad she back in the group dbt skills and taking her meds. It’s so tough. It sounds like a solid plan- having the conversation with her about 3 meals and 3 snacks per day in order to drive the car and have the phone. It’s a safety issue- She can’t drive unless she’s nourished, and it’s a privelege to have the phone. Glad you got out and a had a good time. Weddings are always joyful. As for us, d relapsing (there’s a thread about it.) Have assessment for local ERC for iop or php tomorrow. D is well aware. I have to say, on these very difficult days, I check this forum on and off all day, learning from others, following others’ journeys, I feel like I know you all and want to support (and be supported) in any way I can. Bless you all!
tina72

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Reply with quote  #102 
Please tell us about your situation, we need to hear how the story is going on...[wink]
It is so good to see that others have problems too and how you get on and solve them step by step. That gives us all hope so please keep posting.

To start with the car and the phone is a good idea, I think, because that is a big incentive. We use that too and our d is compliant because she doesn´t want to crash the car or hurt someone because she may have a shut down while driving...she said to me "you won´t let grandpa (80) drive when he is not healthy enough to do that, won´t you?" and I agreed with that. So if she wants to drive, she has to eat and be fit. Low blood sugar is very dangerous at driving a car, it has nearly the same effects as alcohol.

Wedding and some drinks sounds great!!! I hope you enjoyed it! We need to do these "normal" things sometimes...
Tina72
mjkz

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Reply with quote  #103 
Yay for normal things!!!  Hope your talk last night went well and stick to your guns.  No driving, etc. if she doesn't eat no matter what. 
Francie

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Reply with quote  #104 
Hi HateED, Sounds like everything is going well. Ups and downs are to be expected. So glad you had a chance to go to a wedding and enjoy yourselves. That's so necessary. Carers need to practice self-care on a regular basis. 

Continued best wishes! XO

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Francie

mjkz

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Reply with quote  #105 
Hey HateEd, how are things going?
HateEDwithApassion

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Reply with quote  #106 
Hi all,
Having a hard time posting here. Things are not great. D is eating but not the whole meal plan. Super depressed and spending lots of time in her room, in bed. Applied for a few jobs, but nothing yet. Going to counseling, seems to be taking meds, and seeing dietician, but as low as I've ever seen her mood wise. Her therapist reached out to me last night because she texted him she was very suicidal. We were home - had no idea - she was in her room on her computer. 

He asked me to check on her and text him back as she had stopped answering his texts. She fell asleep, but I woke her and asked if she was ok. We are doing a family session next week. I do not think we can ask her to leave - she's barely functioning and looks like hell. Any control pushes her further into a shell. We were just trying to plan a vacation for my husband's birthday - a short getaway - as this call came into my phone and we realized we can't make any plans day to day.

So, hanging in there for now, but she's not getting any better and probably is getting worse, mood-wise. Doesn't help that no friends are home. No job. No nothing to look forward to. She won't volunteer. She won't talk. Grrrr...Thanks for asking. 

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19 yo D. AN - since about 15 years old. WR quickly - but the last four years have been tough. Since Sept. 2017, two residential stays, now in IOP, fighting a relapse. ED is hanging on, mental state not great, can't get her to remain at a weight long enough or high enough to see mental healing. She's on a gap year that will likely now turn into two.
Francie

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Reply with quote  #107 
Hi HateED,
I am so sorry to read this post. Keep moving forward one foot in front of the other. Good that your daughter reached out to her therapist re: feeling suicidal, and good that he reached you in time to respond immediately and before booking a trip away.

Re: No nothing to look forward to. Is there something you can suggest that might be something she can look forward to? A manicure (you can do it at home), adult coloring book session with you (you don't have to talk, just think good thoughts while you do it), doing something silly like buy outrageous false eyelashes and try them on together? Would she look forward to having/planning an open house with her friends over the holidays? You can make it not center around food. 

And what's your mood like? And your hubbys? I can only imagine you are feeling devastated and rightly so. but still, it is helpful to be as optimistic as you can manage to be even though it seems like everything is turning to mud all around you. Is there something you can be upbeat about? And share that with her?

I can only repeat good advice I've received on the forum: stay strong, tell your daughter it will get better, pray, stay hopeful. We are all supporting you here. I am also wondering if your d is taking a new medication? And has she been tested for bipolar?

I heard this recently from a young woman who recovered from an ED: 'If you want to interrupt an addict/alcoholic/(fill in the blank), show them love, unconditional love'.

I know this is so hard to watch. It's not too different here, either.

Sending good thoughts and prayers. XO

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Francie

eternalhope

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Reply with quote  #108 
HateEDWithAPassion, I’m so sorry it’s been so difficult. I think about you all and others on this forum quite a bit. It just sucks and it’s so unfair. Our beautiful children so changed by this nasty illness. Francis has beautiful words. I don’t have any better ones except to say hang in there. Don’t let this defeat you. Do what you need to do to stay strong and hopeful. Things will turnaeound, just takes time. Stay strong in your faith and find the bright spots. Thinking of you and saying prayers every night
mjkz

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Reply with quote  #109 
I would seriously require her to volunteer somewhere.  It will get her out of her own head and make her participate in life.  What does her team suggest?  It would also help to set a time line for her.  She has to have a job or a volunteer position by the first of the year.  That gives her time to look and plan.  I suffer from depression and when it is really bad, I often times can't get myself to do things unless I have a very clear deadline and consequence of not meeting that deadline.

I would make plans for hubby's birthday.  She needs to see that life is to be lived and that there are things out there to live for.  At this point all she sees are two people living a life as depressing as her life feels.  She has a team and she is reaching out. If you had not been there last night, her therapist would have called the police to come in and do a wellness check.  By all means do the vacation and get some "normal" time for you and hubby.  If she is that suicidal with you there, what does you being there serve?  You need to do things for you now and let her see what her life can be like.


Foodsupport_AUS

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Reply with quote  #110 
I am sorry that it is all so hard at the moment. You must be so worried about her state given her significant state of withdrawal. I don't think there is a right way to approach this, but I do think you and hubby need to decide on the next step forward. It sounds as though she is incapable of even looking for or holding down any work at the moment. She so clearly needs intensive treatment. The tough part is getting her to go into that and to start working with the team supporting her rather than against it. It is great that she is at least texting her therapist and also that they have clearly demonstrated that they will get in touch with you if they are concerned. 

Stay strong and take care of yourself. Tough to do when you are dealing with all this. 

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D diagnosed restrictive AN June 2010 age 13.5. Weight restored July 2012. Relapse and now clawing our way back. Treatment: multiple hospitalisations and individual and family therapy.
HateEDwithApassion

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Reply with quote  #111 

Hi,

I haven't been able to bring myself here, except to read your posts. Thanks to all those who reach out and check in. 

Basically my D is here, but not eating. Lost all the weight she gained at ERC and now wants to go back there for res. Six weeks after being kicked out for drinking and non-compliance. She doesn't seem interested in support or recovery, but in getting away from home where she has no life. All friends are gone at college. Barista job is taking a while to go back to. She's not volunteering or doing anything. She is doing all her therapy and taking her meds, but restricting more than ever and also purging - which is kinda new.

Her ED team members think she needs a higher level of care, but also don't know that she has the mindset to make res work. She's not going to get well but to escape. She doesn't want to do PHP here because she doesn't like their food. Ha! So that tells you how much she really wants help.

I called her team today and finally said we need to circle the wagons, get on the same page, and get on the same page. She's manipulating us. Lying to her team on different topics. Lying to us. 

I've been reading alot on Al-Anon and codependency no more. I have had to detach and let her have this relapse. I've jumped in and tried to fix, control, cajole, threaten, beg, support, etc. and none of it works. If she's not getting her way, she refuses to eat or do anything. 

So, I have  call with Laura Collins tomorrow to get some outside guidance. My H and I are reaching the point of telling her to take her money and move out. I honestly think that may be what has to happen to get her to experience the consequences of her ED and finally cooperate at least a little. I hate to say it, but I kinda don't care anymore. I'm fully burnt out. 


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19 yo D. AN - since about 15 years old. WR quickly - but the last four years have been tough. Since Sept. 2017, two residential stays, now in IOP, fighting a relapse. ED is hanging on, mental state not great, can't get her to remain at a weight long enough or high enough to see mental healing. She's on a gap year that will likely now turn into two.
Francie

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Reply with quote  #112 
Hi HateED,
We are in  a similar place. My d was moved from residential after a too-short stay of 19 days. She was in php for about 6 weeks before being kicked out. Her therapist and dietician back home 'fired' her for not accepting IOP once she was back home. She's begun abusing otc medicines and is b/p every meal and no one will treat her except for one kind LCSW, who she refuses to see.

I lost it this morning after the T my h and I saw last night said to us 'your daughter doesn't want to get better. Focus on yourselves and live your lives'. It felt like I got a death sentence for my daughter.

I am with you in spirit, sister. Feel free to email me. I can share with you my experience with Al Anon, which I have been going to religiously for about 1 year. XO Francie



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Francie

lavmom

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Reply with quote  #113 
Dear HateED and Francie,

First, let me say how much I sympathize with your situation, and will pray for things to turn around.

I too, have a 20 year old D with AN for 2.5 years, at ERC since Oct - kicked out of their PHP program for drinking (the first 2 days in the apartments)  - has been self-harming to the point of having to be admitted to the psych hospital.  ERC feel they could no longer handle her - and is now going to go to a treatment center for substance abuse and mood disorder - but I am fearful the ED will win and take over while she is at the new place.

This is such a horrible disease - robbing of us of these young, vibrant girls who have so much to offer.  I hope things turn around for you both and that you will find peace and your daughters will find recovery.

I pray the same for mine - but it looks and sounds like this a long, awful road.  Thanks for being on this post.  It helps to know I am not alone. 
mjkz

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Reply with quote  #114 
I'm so sorry Francie and HateEd.  I don't have much to say other than I hope you both can make decisions that benefit you the most and yet are ones you can live with. Francie I think the T's advice is good.  At some point you have to let them fall and fail and get on with your own life.  I don't think they truly get anything until it happens to them.

HateEd, will ERC take her back?  Might be time to have her look at the program that ERC was talking about for BPD/ED, etc.
HateEDwithApassion

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Reply with quote  #115 
Hi,
Francie, I'm curious about your Al-anon experience. I will reach out to you via email. I have found just being online in a FB group for Al-anon and Codependency has given me a totally different perspective. I feel quite able to step back and let her fall at this point, knowing that I truly can't control her. I can control money, living situation, what we are willing to live with, but I can't control her recovery or her motivation to recover. And I think I'm slowly becoming ok with that, and maybe even a little relieved that it's off my plate. 😉

Mjkz,
She did an intake with ERC today. We told her go ahead and find out if insurance will cover or they'll take you back. But neither of us believes she should do it after the last experience unless she has a total shift in motivation to get well. I've thought about telling her we'll take the money from her funds to pay for it, and if she puts forth best effort before and after the program, we'll return it to her. If not, she's paid for it herself. That seems fair - if it even gets there. Her team is meeting with her tomorrow and Friday. She's at DBT tonight. So, I'm just patiently letting this play out. 

If she doens't agree to anything, we'll encourage her to take her cash and get a place. I don't think she truly wants to do that. The program in Chicago does do the dual diagnosis - she doesn't seem interested in that. ha. Of course not. It's not Colorado! 

I'm ok. Really. I have to focus on my other daughter and honestly, keeping my marriage afloat. My H has the inclination into escaping when things go bad, and it's not good for us as a family or couple. 😉

__________________
19 yo D. AN - since about 15 years old. WR quickly - but the last four years have been tough. Since Sept. 2017, two residential stays, now in IOP, fighting a relapse. ED is hanging on, mental state not great, can't get her to remain at a weight long enough or high enough to see mental healing. She's on a gap year that will likely now turn into two.
HateEDwithApassion

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Reply with quote  #116 
lavmom,

I'm so sorry to hear your story, too. Sometimes it's hard for me to come here because my story is so much of a bummer, but I am here to support you and I understand totally. Sounds similar in many ways. Feel free to reach out anytime. 😉

__________________
19 yo D. AN - since about 15 years old. WR quickly - but the last four years have been tough. Since Sept. 2017, two residential stays, now in IOP, fighting a relapse. ED is hanging on, mental state not great, can't get her to remain at a weight long enough or high enough to see mental healing. She's on a gap year that will likely now turn into two.
Francie

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Reply with quote  #117 
Hi Lavmom, mjkz, thank you for your support. Lavmom, sorry for your situation. We just have to keep putting 1 foot in front of the other

Hate ED - One surprising thing I found at Al Anon is there are people there who know about eating disorders, including one very kind 20-something who has offered help to my daughter if she would only reach out to her. XO


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mjkz

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Reply with quote  #118 
Quote:
I've thought about telling her we'll take the money from her funds to pay for it, and if she puts forth best effort before and after the program, we'll return it to her. If not, she's paid for it herself. That seems fair - if it even gets there. Her team is meeting with her tomorrow and Friday. She's at DBT tonight. So, I'm just patiently letting this play out.


I think that is an excellent idea.  I don't know that I would ever trust ERC again given how they ended treatment with my daughter but my daughter at that point would listen to no one. It was only after ERC said no way to her coming back that she was willing to look at anything else.  I don't think ERC is equipped to deal with all the issues and that was very clear from our experience there.  My daughter always got worse in a hospital program.  It was like all the time spent just focusing on food, calories, etc. just magnified her behavior until she was out of control.  We had to do it at home but as I've said before, I did have to kick her out and it was only after finding out what the real world was like (i.e. no one to pay for everything and she was actually expected to do things) that she was willing to toe the line and play by my rules.  Maybe an option would be for PHP again.  That complaint about the food had me giggling.  I'm sorry but it is just so telling of where their minds are.  My daughter's criteria for a place of treatment was being able to pick her food from Day 1 and they had to let her be vegan and served from a buffet style and, and, and, etc.  The sicker she got, the more rules appeared.

Al-Anon as Francie has said is surprising in how many people deal with eating disorders in their kids no matter what their other habits are.  I did Al-Anon for quite awhile and found it very supportive.

Quote:
I'm ok. Really. I have to focus on my other daughter and honestly, keeping my marriage afloat.


There is nothing wrong with that.  Do what you have to do because breaking up the family for one person is not the answer.
melstevUK

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Reply with quote  #119 
Francie and HateED,

I am really really sorry for what you are both going through.  In many ways I think RAN is possibly easier to deal with although it is scary when they start that journey back down the slope of weight loss.  Hospitalisation can at least get weight back on, but I have absolutely no advice to give on b/p behaviours and I have no idea how I would have dealt with it myself.  It must be heartbreaking.  The only thing I can say is that I think Nelly's d may be a bit older than your two girls and she has come through the cycle and is getting her life together.  
Big hugs to both of you and keep having faith that eventually they will start to turn things around.  

lavmom - I am sorry for what you are experiencing as well.  These illnesses are horrendous.

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Kali

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Reply with quote  #120 
Hi...I know there is some discussion on this thread about Al-Anon, and I wanted to share my experience. Years ago, before I was familiar with mental illness I had two people in my life who were alcoholics. One was a close friend, and the other an extended family member of my husbands.

I attended an Al-Anon meeting with my friend. While I was there I also asked around about the extended family member trying to get some ideas about how to help them.

This is what I was told:
"You can't do anything to help them. They need to hit rock bottom and then decide that they want to get well"

Both my friend and family member are dead and both died from medical complications of their alcoholism. 

The advice I got there was clearly not helpful. 

Kali



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Francie

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Reply with quote  #121 
Hi Kali, I am sorry your experience with Al Anon was so harsh. If I were hearing things like that too, I'd never go back. But one thing you need to know about Al Anon: you are not there for your ill loved one, you are there for yourself.

I don't go to Al Anon to help my daughter. I go because I need support and ideas about how to handle my debilitating fear and rage over her continued illness and denial of her illness. Al Anon has helped keep my marriage intact, helped me maintain and build on a relationship with my d, and has helped me to be able to function most days.

While every meeting has a different tone depending on who is there, my experience at Al Anon is gentler than what you have described.

I have found in Al Anon good people who are good parents whose stories give me good, loving ideas for moving forward because they know what it's like to parent a child who has SA/mental illness. I have met people who have recovered from eating disorders who have been willing to talk with me and talk with my daughter. And they have been loving in their listening and advice-giving if I have asked for advice.

I don't for a minute believe my daughter has to hit 'rock bottom' before she can get better. But I do believe she has to stop being enabled by me and her dad before it will happen. 

I know of no ED parent support group for me to attend. If there were one,  I would go there instead. There is an eatingdisordersanonymous group that meets on Monday nights in my state but they won't let me attend without my daughter and she hasn't agreed to go yet. But one of the attendees has been generous with her time on the phone with me.

Al Anon is definitely not a perfect fit when you're dealing with an ED, but I do find some aspects of it helpful. One of my favorite Al Anon sayings is 'take what you like and leave the rest'. Another helpful slogan for dealing with my daughter is T.H.I.N.K. If I am about to confront her about something, I stop to make sure what I'm going to say is Timely/Truthful, Helpful, Intelligent, Necessary and Kind.

Thanks for hearing me out. I hope you know I admire you. XO



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Francie

Kali

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Reply with quote  #122 

Hi Francie,

Thanks for writing about your experience. I don't want to hijack the thread but can appreciate that there are different groups in Al Anon, and different experiences.

I was not there seeking support for myself, I attended with a friend who was an alcoholic who asked me to come with her as a support for her. She wanted me to know more about what she was going through. Also, I was not speaking with parents; I was asking people who had experienced alcohol and substance abuse what their opinions were of what I could do to help someone based on what they had been through. So, bit of a different situation. Is there a different group for parents? Maybe I was at a completely different type of meeting than what you are describing. 

warmly,

Kali


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Francie

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Reply with quote  #123 
Hi Kali, briefly so as to not hijack the thread: yes, there are many different Al Anon groups: for parents, married couples, LGBTQ, adult children of alcoholics, young people, women only, etc., there is also Ala teen for 12-20 yr olds. XO
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Francie

eternalhope

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Reply with quote  #124 
HateED- I too find it hard to post when things are not going well. I’m glad you posted as I’ve followed your threads, and Francie’s story too. And Lavmom, I’m sorry your situation is similar. I was in a parent group Friday with a couple who had been dealing with a RAN daughter going on 9 years. She had been in an out of a lot of the hospitals we’ve all heard of, and although they did not talk about Al anon, they did talk about finding a peace with having to disconnect with always trying to fix and rescue her. They said sometimes she has to fail to pick herself back up again, and that ultimately she had to decide if she wants recovery (and on the upside she was back in treatment on her on accord and they were there supporting her as they always did.) God I hate this illness. I think about my D every minute of every day, and it’s so hard to escape the grasp this illness has on our family. My d is currently doing Ok in a residential facility, but we fear she will restrict again at home.
mjkz

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Reply with quote  #125 
I think Eternalhope what you heard from that family was a decorated and much more palatable version of what you heard Kali because in the end, it will always be up to the person who is suffering to make the decision to change something.  That might be hitting rock bottom (and everyone's rock bottom is different) but it might simply be the decision to allow someone to help.  I really do believe there is a point where you have to disengage with the person who is suffering if he/she truly will not accept there there is a problem or that anything needs to change.  My daughter never made a decision to get well but she did decide that she was willing to try things my way and let me help. That made all the difference and she is now in recovery.  Had she not made that decision, I knew I had to stop pushing help on her that wasn't making any difference because it was killing me and any quality of life I might have and it wasn't making her any better.  It is radically different if the person isn't an adult or hasn't had any treatment to speak of.

We might want to never give up and we never lose the wanting to make them better but at a certain point you do have to make a decision of how much longer you are going to give up your life for someone who doesn't take any action to save her own life.  I think the mind set is a little different too with substance abuse because they can avoid drugs and alcohol and still live.  You can't do that with food.

I would have been there to support my daughter at any point had she come back and said I need help and I can't do it on my own.  I'm willing to try.  I was done trying to fix her and make her better because I wanted it much more than she ever did.
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