F.E.A.S.T's Around The Dinner Table forum

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Sorry this is a q mainly for UK parents - does anyone know of any teen who has successfully had their section lifted after going to appeal? My d has requested for her section to be lifted and its going to tribunal in Jan. She has already said that as soon as she becomes an informal pt she will discharge herself with one aim once she is home - to end her life, so obviously we cannot let her come off section. Naturally none of her team are supporting her appeal but the only thing in her favour is the fact that despite the fact she is IP she isn't actually having any therapy as she refuses it all so as far as she is concerned there is no point her being in hospital! Needless to say both her father and I are terrified that she may win in which case we are just dreading the day
. It scares me to so much to see how the anorexia and borderline  has changed my d, I just want my girl back and with her turning 18 in 5 weeks time I just feel she is slipping away from us. Ward round is today but I doubt there will be anything new, just praying for a bed to become available in the secure unit as soon after xmas as possible so they can start getting meds down her via ng tube, this just seems never ending.
She isn't safe to come out so we will spend xmas morning with her on the unit, while ok its not nice for me I just feel so much for her brother and sister who have to be subjected to it all. Sorry for the rant but apart MAED, HERE and my other half I really don't have any where else for support. [frown]

I don't have any experience in this I am afraid, I just didn't want to read and run.  The fact that her team are behind you, and the fact she is refusing therapy speaks volumes, and the tribunal will have all this information to hand, so their decision is based upon the evidence given.
The ED changes our children beyond our worst nightmares, but this site tells me again and again (thank god) that our kids are still there, just hidden by the ugly veil that is ED.  From what you say, she isn't taking her meds at the moment? (Correct me if I am wrong, sorry)....when my DD wasn't taking her meds we had 2 suicide attempts, and total restrictions, but she now takes them, and although weight is still unstable her mood is better - and my voice is louder than ED, which means I am winning more battles for her....
Let me know how ward rounds go today, thinking of you x
Mum of 16 year old daughter with anorexia. Weight restored (to my level, not the dr's!), giving control back slowly, under very watchful eyes. 

“When everything seem to be going against you, remember that the airplane takes off against the wind, not with it ....”
Henry Ford

Also have no direct experience and know that the only thing AS strange when it comes to not understanding EDs as the British Law System appears to be the Law Systems of the rest of the world.

However I can't see not having therapy as a good justification in law or logic to stop the section. You CAN'T force someone to have therapy - it's a two way process. Sections and other legal processes don't enforce therapy, they are there to enforce life-saving measures such as medication (in the case of ED including food) and lack of freedom to leave the hospital if this is an issue.  Your daughter has actually spelled it out very clearly that she NEEDS to be on section. I hope that the doctors continue to back you and each other up against her illness for long enough for her to have a chance to start healing.

All the best for the ward round
Fiona Marcella UK
My D is being considered for a section if she refuses treatment. If she agrees to be an IP but doesn't co-operate with treatment she may also be sectioned. Refusing therapy would be used as grounds for sectioning, not for lifting it xxxxx
Get legal advice immediately. I will email you. You are absolutely right to be extremely concerned. Tribunals are unpredictable.

sorry to hear your D is struggling so much.  It's heartbreaking isn't it.  From my own perspective I don't think xmas helps - great expectations and all that. Brings it home how not " normal " our lives have become.

From what you have described it is very unlikely that your D would win her appeal.  Often patients when at their most ill and irrational appeal against a section - professionals realise this and take this into account.  It sounds as if your team are on board with how ill she is and are not supporting the appeal.

I very much hope a bed in a secure unit comes up soon so you can get some much needed rest knowing she is safe.  The situation sounds very difficult and I'm sorry, it's hard.  Very hard.  Take-care. xx
The first port of call for anyone in this situation is http://www.justice.gov.uk/tribunals/mental-health. Be aware that without your child's permission you do not even have the right to attend Tribunal hearings. She will be represented by a publically funded lawyer. All the best.
Strangeways thanks for your email and links both have been very helpful. My d is still set on appealing her section with the irony of the fact that there is only 3 weeks left of this section 3 post tribunal date. The thought of the section being lifted and not continued scares me terribly,both her father and I have told het as much ad we love her she can't come home but Tbh I don't know if I could follow that threat through as I would rather her with me than other family who thought they were helping het in the past but in fact were feeding her ED. I am due to speak with her unit social worker at the end of the week for her opinion and thoughts on the outcome. It's stressful enough atm with her turning 18 and the need to move her without this added stress on top and I know it's impacting on my already poor health which I could do without. Aaaggghhh
This key thing is not to be shy, or retiring and 'British'. Go personally to the office preparing the paperwork, (there will be one devoted to this task), and make absolutely sure that The Panel will have, in advance, all the reports. In our case the paperwork they had seen before they arrived was three months out of date and the 'updates' which were actually photocopied and distributed during the hearing carried nothing like the same weight. Admin is all. The opinions of our Team had not changed but our daughter, being web-savvy, wise and experienced, was able to present whatever face she wished. I suspect we share a hospital - email me for more direct advice. All the luck, courage and wisdom in the world.

Only just seen this thread. 

One of the difficulties around eating disorders and Mental Health Tribunals is that the patient can appear sound of mind.  I cannot see any Tribunal agree to lifting the section if d wants that section removed for the purposes of ending her life.  However, if there someone on the tribunal who thinks that it is a patient's 'right' to end his/her life then that would be the stumbling block as someone with these beliefs might agree to it.  So if by any remote chance this were to happen - then you would have to step in and say that the person(s) on the MHT don't know enough about eds to agree to d's request - because suicidal thinking is often tied up with the illness and that as d, as yet, not engaged with treatment for long enough to be on a road to recovery.  I am really looking at 'worst case scenarios' here so that you can be prepared as best you can. 

I don't know about current guidelines for people on MHTs - I know there has been a big review in Scotland recently on how the Mental Health Act should be applied to ed patients.  In part because enforced feeding is left right until the very last minute, which, as we all know, puts patients at a very high risk of death.

I also don't know what impact or input parents can have when a patient is 18 so that is maybe something you have to find out about too.
So very sorry for all you have gone through and all you are going through.  I don't know what else to advise, other than telling d constantly that she has been given a life and has a duty to live it as usefully as possible, in spite of her suffering.  And that recovery is where this needs to start.  So very difficult when she is in such a dark place without hope or any belief that a recovery is either possible or desirable. 

Hoping for something to change the dynamic of your situation soon. 
Big hugs x

Believe you can and you're halfway there.
Theodore Roosevelt.