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casc Show full post »
Sotired
Okay, I went to the FAQ section of a girl called hope.it says they practice some forms of CBT and DBT. There is a lot of talk about turning to God to heal,which is fine in other contexts,but not eating disorder context I think.i read some things on the FAQ that concern me but I think you need to read them for yourself.
I cannot find any reviews by patients there.i went on their facebook but it's a lot of quotes about God-again one or two that made me wince,even as a person of faith.
They accept people from 16-28.they reserve the right to say no if a person applies.they do insist that the sick person is the one who applies-you can't for example, it has to be your d.they have access to a dietician once a month.although they will negotiate some aspects, there is an expectation that meat is part of the diet provided.

I would look up the FAQ section and the fb if I were you to get a better idea of what they offer.i am concerned that there is exercise built into the programme but perhaps this is different for eating disorder patients.
It sounds like they have had previous trouble in Australia where they ran under mercy mission.
The primary premise is that the person applying has to want to get well.
Dig a little before you enter into a discussion with your d.make it very clear that nothing will be decided until you have and it is likely you will go with what she needs for now, rather than later on in the piece.
Hope this helps
Sotired42
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mjkz
Wow Casc.  Amazing how much progress you can make when you suddenly take back power and set boundaries!!!  What do you want to do?  This would be a great time to implement a contract spelling out that she eats everything you give her within a reasonable time frame or she is off to Starship.  Spell out what kind of follow up she has to keep with health professions, if she purges no going to the bathroom, eating three meals and three snacks, etc. and see what happens.  My guess is that you will still need to continue through with Starship as she won't be able to do it but at least that way you have given her the chance to see that she cannot do it.

I agree with Sotired that a girl called hope is probably a last ditch effort for her to keep some control.  I would continue insisting on Starship. She could always transfer to a girl called hope after being weight recovered and has some stability under her belt.

I can't believe how far you have come in a few days.  You were so discouraged and look at you now. [thumb]
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casc
Yeah I've done a bit of research on it. My mother in law knows of a number of girls who have gone through there and made full recoveries but I'm not convinced it's the program itself but more them being sent away and out of the power struggle that a lot have with their parents. For me I'm battling anorexia but then there is this very strong power struggle between us on top which is what I'm trying to bust. She isn't Christian although she was a part of youth group last year for some of the year. We had a bit of a heated discussion this arvo, her arguing with me that I couldn't have her sectioned and made an inpatient. She said well they didn't last time. She hates having to get her own food and likes me doing it. She's still not eating near enough but more calories today than yesterday. Hmmm think I'll need to make a definite call tomorrow what we are doing. As the weight will still be trickling away
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Kali
casc

Follow your instincts about which program you think will be better for your d. Remember that unfortunately she is not really capable at the moment of making the best decisions for herself. My d. wanted to go somewhere that I did not think would have the best outcome for her as I had both heard anecdotally that the program was not the best, and when I asked them, they had no outcome data that they could show us. I "encouraged" her to go where I thought she would have the best chance for recovery; I wanted her to go to a program where they were doing evidence based treatment based on serious research and that is where she went. We fought about it but I know that I was right; she made good progress in the program. 

It is a plus that your d. understands that she needs help though. 

Kali
Food=Love
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Kali
Ok this is scary.

A Girl Called Hope is based on the work of Mercy Ministries which was founded by Nancy Alcorn in America in 1983. Having worked with troubled youth for eight years; Nancy gained insight into some of the reasons why social problems exist, particularly in young women. 

The first home was opened in Monroe, Louisiana, this then extended to Nashville, St. Louis and Sacremento, California in the United States. Mercy Ministries has expanded internationally with homes in England and Canada.

 

There are reviews about Mercy on eating disorder review a US site where people who have been to different treatment centers write reviews.

http://www.edtreatmentreview.com/
http://www.edtreatmentreview.com/2012/07/19/mercy-ministries-us/

and I found this site

http://mercysurvivors.com/

as well as some stories about girls who go there for treatment and then will have nothing to do with their families.

http://www.lincolnnewsmessenger.com/article/mercy-ministries-two-fathers-views

Yikes

Kali

Food=Love
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casc
Thanks Kali, yeah kinda confirms my thoughts about it. I do think it'd be a great program to do to can great life skills and help with self esteem, anxiety etc but not for a very sick anorexia. I don't think they'd have the resources to cope if they were to have my D as she is now. Think I'll continue on my inpatient line. Our ed paed specialist is back on call tomorrow so will see if we can make it until there
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mjkz
It really scares me that Mercy is still out there and has now expanded into other countries.  Bad treatment is worse than no treatment so I think going with what you know and others have had experiences with is wise.
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casc
Okay ladies I didn't end up doing a contract have drafted one but got no further. I've left her continue to fend for herself and our paediatrician who specialises in eating disorders has rung today and after a lengthy discussion she has said that my D would not get sectioned she said she was happy for me to take her in and discuss with her how serious it is getting and give her the option to agree to going in and being tube fed to get some weight on but she said she would be concerned if d declined and we could threaten her with mha but unless she is compromised it is unlikely they would do it and we would all lose our power. She said if she was 16 it'd be easier but she is classed as an adult and it's different rules now. She doesn't like it or agree but said it's how it is.
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mjkz
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Okay ladies I didn't end up doing a contract have drafted one but got no further.


Is that because she refused to consider it? Why didn't you get further?

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but unless she is compromised it is unlikely they would do it and we would all lose our power.


It makes sense that your pediatrician would tell you that because she is not medically compromised.  You would be seeking admission to starship due to family exhaustion and failure to progress despite maximal outpatient therapy.  You would be seeking section and treatment on a psychiatric basis and not physical basis so quite honestly I'd be calling starship or wherever you need to call to get the ball rolling in that direction.

If you go to see a surgeon for something, you shouldn't be surprised if he/she recommends surgery right?  The pediatrician is only going to be able to look at it from a medical standpoint and recommend from that basis.  She wouldn't necessarily look at the psychiatric basis for section.
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LauraCollins_US
Your situation is far too common out there in the world, in most countries. The system is set up in a way that sets the bar for intervention at medical levels, not psychiatric ones, and it is an almost perfect situation for ED to avoid effective care.

In all countries and health systems, however, there is one factor that gets around those systems: parents. When the parents are prepared and able to do the work and set the parameters between what the health system and legal system will do, and what we can do. It is so important to know that you have more control and power over the situation than you may think you have, or what the professionals are able to explain. They can only do what their funding and professional guidelines allow, and in most systems that is only for dire emergencies.

But we as parents can do a lot more. We can very calmly, with good information, make a plan and follow it through. We can't change what the health system or our loved one's mind does, but we can choose what WE do within it. We don't have to wait for permission or agreement from "ED." And no, we can't control everything. But ED tries very hard to convince us that all we have is fear, and that we are helpless. It can get us to fall into anger, self-doubt, or fatalism. It pushes ALL our buttons. But we are actually in a unique completely irreplacable position: we are parents. There is no force on earth like it. And our kids know this. They may push against it, spit and snarl, but they trust us to be parents and to have a plan and limits and resources. I hear all the time from patients who won't tell their own parents that they are rooting for us to be strong, to be clear, to be calm. I hear the disappointment and the disdain when we do not.

You are a parent. There's nothing else like it. Don't let anyone or anything convince you to be any less. Be in charge of what you can, accept what you cannot control, and be proud of what the parental instincts and commitment that guide you!
Laura (Collins) Lyster-Mensh
F.E.A.S.T. Executive Director
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casc
Laura thank you for the post it's very true.

mjkz - don't think she was basing it on medical she was saying from what she's seen and said in a lot of cases it can depend on who is on. She was basing it on a psych level as well. I was pretty impressed though with that she would agree to see d through the emergency department and try and persuade her to go into ward nicely now for refeeding before it gets to bad and everything will be against her rights. I had found the contract in wanted but hadn't had a chance to adjust it to suit as I worked new years night until 3am then have my other 3 kids here (2, 3 and 12) and had my niece as well. Yesterday I had a complete breakdown so ended up going away for half day to sort my sh!t out so last night was first chance I've had to do it so hubby and I did it.
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mjkz
Life happened in between then [biggrin]  Do you think she would do the program that she was originally to do but came home instead?  If she is willing to do the other program, why not the one she was going to in the first place?

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Yesterday I had a complete breakdown so ended up going away for half day to sort my sh!t out so last night was first chance I've had to do it so hubby and I did it.


Hope things are going better.
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casc
mjkz wrote:
If she is willing to do the other program, why not the one she was going to in the first place?



Hope things are going better.


The only program is the Girl Called Hope one which she had to apply for and not sure it's the right place for her at the moment. I'm about stuck with knowing what the right move is. I've currently take I don't give a sh!t stance (which I do) and have said you refuse the fbt do all your own meals when you can't I'll send you to hospital. Bugger me she's getting all her own unprompted 3 x meals and 3 x snacks and it's food which she had been refusing to eat ie dairy, chocolate etc, the volume isn't there but it's way more than what she was eating last week when I was doing all meals and snacks. We are day 4 of this today. She asked to do fbt again which I was hoping for but now I think if we do she will eat less again as when I'm "in conrol" she doesn't complete meals no matter how many hours I sit with her regardless or rewards or punishments and she cuts whole food groups and no matter how much I pushed she digs in her heels more.
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Sotired
Sigh.did anyone point out to this pysch how skilled anorexia is at lying and getting what it wants,dragging our poor kids along for the ride?thats why they invented all those fancy words like agnosia and other words that my brain can't remember.your d can appear completely 'normal'-except she isn't.maybe you could get her to eat a meal in front of the pysch filled with all her fear foods- I swear that is the only way some of the pyschs see how it IS versus how our kids present to them.
You can section under a refusal to comply with treatment-that's all the pysch needs.btw if your d is keen for residential treatment (re the discussion about a girl called hope) then get her on the waiting list for what used to be called thrive, the residential treatment place in Auckland.make her put her money where her mouth is on that.if she wants to get better,great.but she needs to apply to the right places for treatment.
I hope things we going ok,
Sotired42
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casc
Thanks sotired, it's crazy. They piss me off as they always use a cancer analogy that if she was having chemo for cancer we would insist on the full dose ie food etc etc I said yes that's correct but we also wouldn't wait for her to get to stage 4 before stepping in and doing something when the treatment we started at stage 1 stopped being effective.
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mjkz
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hTe only program is the Girl Called Hope one which she had to apply for and not sure it's the right place for her at the moment.


No!! Don't send her there.  I was referring to the program she was supposed to go to from the hospital but ended up coming home because she wouldn't okay tube placement after meals were not completed.

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They piss me off as they always use a cancer analogy that if she was having chemo for cancer we would insist on the full dose ie food etc etc I said yes that's correct but we also wouldn't wait for her to get to stage 4 before stepping in and doing something when the treatment we started at stage 1 stopped being effective.


Good answer!!!!  I love your answers.  You are 100% correct.
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casc
I can't get her on to that program unless she agrees to doing it which she won't at the moment unfortunately. Very disappointed with our system it's a freaking mess
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mjkz
Casc, just wondering how things are going?
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