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OneToughMomma

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Reply with quote  #26 
akeys,

I'm sorry you are in this situation.  It's a really awful place, we know.

You've gotten such good advice.  I second you having a very thorough, secret search of his room and the bathroom/shower.  He may be eating 'junk' foods knowing he will get rid of them later.  

Another very strong possibility is him exercising in the night.  Are you a sound sleeper?  

It was very wise of you to have an appointment with the Dr before you take in s.  Toothfairy's links should give you some good material to start your discussions.

Please prepare yourself, and your dear MIL, for his possible reaction when it's time to get him to the appt. Sometimes my d got resistant to going to appointments.  It took two of us to 'herd' her into the car.  We would hold our arms wide and walk her backwards towards the door and then car.  Make sure the child locks are on and there's nothing he can use to distract or hurt anyone.  My d tipped an entire bottle of water over me while I was driving at 100k's down the motorway.  

Consider your plans A, B, and C (also, as deenl says, Plans WTf and FFS).  Everyone's safety is paramount.  Would you call the police if you couldn't get him into the car?  Would the Dr come out to your car if s won't get out?  Could he do a house call later that day?

This is your first big stand against ED, and it would be great if s could see you calm, confident, and firm.  (fake it until you make it!)

Sending you a big hug through cyber space.

xoOTM

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D in and out of EDNOS since age 8. dx RAN 2013. WR Aug '14. Graduated FBT June 2015 at 18 yrs old. [thumb]
deenl

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Reply with quote  #27 
Hi akeys,

It took an age and even when my son was IP they didn't figure out the ED because

1. he was male and they don't expect it as much
2. the GP knew nothing (here a GP can expect to see someone with an ED roughly once every 5 years so it's not really suprising)
3. my son would eat things like a walnut and brie baguette and had no fat phobia
4. he had no drive to be thin or have muscles, he just had a total food phobia
5. by the time we did the whole round of GPs, phychologists, psychiatrists, IP etc looking for answers his brain was so malnourishes they though he had OCD, crazy parents, was on the autism spectrum, depressed etc. All have resolved without any treatment apart from nutritional rehabilitation.

You do need to be prepared for the fact that when our ED kids are first challenged the fight like tigers. Best to have lots of scenario planning done. If you don't need them, great. If you do, then at least you are well prepared.

Warm wishes,

D

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2015 12yo son restricting but no body image issues, no fat phobia; lost weight IP! Oct 2015 home, stable but no progress. Medical hosp to kick start recovery Feb 2016. Slowly and cautiously gaining weight at home and seeing signs of our real kid.

May 2017 Hovering around WR. Mood great, mostly. Building up hour by hour at school after 18 months at home. Summer 2017 Happy, first trip away in years, tons of variety in food, stepping back into social life. Sept 2017, back to school full time for the first time in 2 years. Happy and relaxed, just usual non ED hassles. 

  • Swedish proverb: Love me when I least deserve it because that's when I need it most.
  • We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence Recovery, then, is not an act but a habit. Aristotle.
  • If the plan doesn't work, change the plan but never the goal. (but don't give up on the plan too soon, maybe it just needs a tweak or a bit more time and determination [wink] )
  • We cannot control the wind but we can direct the sail.
akeys

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Reply with quote  #28 
Thanks everyone.

Got my doctor appointment tomorrow to check he is board and one for S Friday. I have everything printed and made notes.

S has gone from 1 meal per day to eating about 4 times per day of his own accord, which is great and has improved his mood, however he is still weighing and scanning everything. He has said he plans to put on .25 kg per week so he can get muscles. He is eating protein pancakes, chicken and tuna with his noodles then a normal dinner.

I know he is going to use this against the doctor/me "I can't be ill as I am eating more"

This is what has thrown me in the past as he seems to get better then something triggers him.

Any advice on how to tell him on Friday that I think he may be anorexic and he must go to doctor? Do I just be matter of fact. I have printed off a simple symptoms page from NHS website to show him why I think this. I have control of his mobile and the internet so will use that if necessary.

And I have had my mail redirected so I can check all my mail for any 'unwanted packages'. I am going to explain how dangerous this is after doctor on Friday as I am hoping the doctor will back me up.
Foodsupport_AUS

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Reply with quote  #29 
I think the important part is not to discuss the weight or your potential concerns about diagnosis with your son. 
You are concerned about behaviours, what you have observed. He had been limiting food to only one meal per day and although he has increased this to four meals you have observed that he is scanning and weighing all foods (not normal behaviour), he reports trying to gain muscles only (you don't really get to choose how to gain weight, particularly just by diet), he is eating high protein meals (dangerous for his kidneys), he has had pills delivered. 

Best of luck. 

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D diagnosed restrictive AN June 2010 age 13.5. Weight restored July 2012. Relapse and now clawing our way back. Treatment: multiple hospitalisations and individual and family therapy.
HopeNZ

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Reply with quote  #30 
Hi akeys, I'm so sorry you're in this very difficult place right now.  Getting a diagnosis will give you a focus and a plan.  It sounds as if you're already onto things by observing closely what your s is eating, and intercepting any unwanted 'mail'.

I agree with Foodsupport, and would recommend against mentioning anorexia to your s.  We found that the moment ED was called out was the moment the beast came out of hiding, in all its fury.  You don't want this as you're trying to get your s to the appointment.  Also, allowing the diagnosis to emerge during the doctor's appointment, preferably from the doctor's lips rather than yours, might give it more weight (excuse the pun!) with your s and possibly even mean he is more willing to cooperate with you as you plan your next steps?

Whichever approach you take to get him into the car and into the appointment, I suggest you avoid getting into explanations.  A wonderful saying here is that 'you can't negotiate with a terrorist'.  ED is a cunning negotiator and manipulator, and a terrorist who is holding your s hostage.  You could say something along the lines of, 'I'm very concerned about your health and happiness.  I love you.  I am taking you to see the doctor,' and repeat as needed!

Best of luck.  We're here for you.
tina72

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Reply with quote  #31 
Hi akeys,
I hope the doctors appointment today will help you with that decision and that the doctor is a good one and helpful.
I would not tell your s that you are going to the doctor because of AN diagnosis. Then you will see an ED outbreak and he will not go with you.
Tell him this is a regular health check and maybe that you are concerned about his blood and bones because he has restricted some food in the last time and although you see that he is eating more now this needs to be checked to protect him from osteoporosis. Fake this is only a medical test and do not use words like ED and AN.

"I know he is going to use this against the doctor/me "I can't be ill as I am eating more""
A good doctor will not listen to that after you told him about his behaviour. Yes, he is eating more than the week before, but only for a short time and still very restrictive. It is not normal to scan and weigh everything and it is also not normal to have a number of 0,25 kg a week he wishes to gain to get muscles. There must first be some flesh above his bones to develop some muscles in future. He cannot decide only to get muscles. That is ED talk.

I hope the doctor is not one of the old school team and will help you. Keep us updated what he told you today.
Tina72

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teecee

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Reply with quote  #32 
Hi akeys
Good luck with the appointments. Good advice re passing the appointments off to your S as general health checks as you love him and want to be reassured he is healthy. He can’t argue that as he’s trying to convince himself and all around that he wants to be ‘fit’.
In the early days our clinician described ED as a turtle poking it’s head out and then popping back when it feels it’s been seen too much. I think the fact your S is upping his intake slightly to 4 meals from 1 is possibly the ED sensing it’s been uncovered and is doing ‘just enough’ so that you may back off.
You are right to go ahead seeking answers and advice as the number 1 thing is your S safety/health.
Love and support. You can do this. It’s amazing what support wraps around you and from who. Stay strong. Xx
akeys

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Reply with quote  #33 
Hi guys

The turtle thing makes sense. As the extra meals started after a conversation where he asked if I still thought he had an eating disorder then said he was going to loose 3kg. I said I wasn't going to let that happen. He responded by not eating at all that day but 2 days later started the 4 meals but weighing/scanning everything thing.

Well have been to the doc on my own....I think it went ok. The doc seemed to perk up when I mentioned the weighing/scanning diet. He said it was good I was concerned and that I should definitely get him to come in. He mentioned the phone when I said it was going to be difficult.

He did however slightly concern me with a lot of talk about my s privacy being 17. And he should be able to see him alone if S doesn't want me there. I made it clear S is in denial and S will think we are all mad.

I asked to be referred to a CAMNS in the next county in Buckinghamshire as they have family therapy and look better than Hertfordshire but he said that would probs not be possible. He wouldn't commit as to whether he would refer or not.

S is aware I suspect he has ED as I have mentioned it a few times so will know that is why we are going to doctor but I will try the checking health route.

I think I will tell his dad if I can't get him to go as I will need some 'muscle' for the next attempt.
tina72

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Reply with quote  #34 
"He did however slightly concern me with a lot of talk about my s privacy being 17. And he should be able to see him alone if S doesn't want me there."

How is that in your country? Is he adult at 17? Who is paying for the insurance that pays the doctor?
I think you must be rigid with that. He must not undress in front of you but all that is spoken and decided needs to be your case.

"I asked to be referred to a CAMNS in the next county in Buckinghamshire as they have family therapy and look better than Hertfordshire but he said that would probs not be possible. He wouldn't commit as to whether he would refer or not."

Ask again why this would probs not be possible and if you get no real answer, get in contact with CAMHS in Buckinghamshire and ask them what they need to be able to see him. Maybe they can get in contact with your doctor?
Another idea: Can you contact Eva Musby to ask her where the best therapy in your region is available?

"I think I will tell his dad if I can't get him to go as I will need some 'muscle' for the next attempt."

Great idea. Keep swimming. He needs help.
I cross my fingers that you get him to the appointment tomorrow.
Tina72

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toothfairy

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Reply with quote  #35 
Good Luck Tomorrow,
Make sure you have a plan A B C  for if he wont get in the car, also I would take somebody with me in the car to sit with him.

Here are the AED guidelines to take with you of tests he should have.
http://www.nyeatingdisorders.org/pdf/AED%20Medical%20Management%20Guide%203rd%20Edition.pdf

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Food is the medicine. Recovery is possible.
akeys

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Reply with quote  #36 
You guys are amazing!!!!

What great advice.
I did what you said and used the concern for health chat along with tips from Eva's book about stating my needs...."I need to know you are healthy". It worked and S happily went although his view was to prove me wrong.

Also calm confident and assertive..... good advice.

The doctor was an utter moron and completely out of his depth. Adam went through all his dieting background admitting he had lost 10kg in 18 months he even got out his phone to show him all his weigh ins he had done. He spent a long time telling the doctor he was fine and that he just had 'one of those faces with high cheekbones that makes him look thinner than he was'. S said he was putting on weight now so all was fine and that he was going to loose his fat and gain muscle. The doctor weighed him and told S his BMI was normal (18) and started to go down the route of 'oh that's ok then lets monitor you'.....

I could barely contain myself and then the doctor actually said to me what do I think! Jesus! I said everything S had just said suggested an ED and I want him referred.

I think the doctor saw I was not going to back down so agreed meekly to blood tests and to refer.

I am celebrating it as a victory for now but I suspect this is just the beginning.

Interestingly S is very relaxed and compliant. He said this is my problem and I am wasting everyone's time but he will go along with it. I think him upping his calories has made him much easier to deal with I can't imagine the same result 2 weeks ago when he was eating one meal a day.

One thing he did say which I thought was odd.... while arguing with the doctor that he was fine he suddenly said something like "maybe this is the anorexia talking' then back back into the I'm fine speech. He must have looked up the symptoms to know about denial.

Thanks again I now have to wait and monitor him while we have the probably long referral wait. I get the impression S sees this as a challenge now to prove me wrong so maybe I can have a little normality until the next trigger.
tina72

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Reply with quote  #37 
Hi akeys,
you are a warrior mum! Great that you got him there!!!
The doctor seems really be a moron and a BMI of 18 is NOT NORMAL for a growing young man. Even the WHO says a normal BMI for a boy that age should be around 21. So 18 is in every way UNDERWEIGHT for his sex and age. Go bring him a percentile next appointment. Do you have a historical weight chart of your son? It would be important to see where his biological weight has normally been. That must be your target to get him back there.

"Interestingly S is very relaxed and compliant. He said this is my problem and I am wasting everyone's time but he will go along with it. I think him upping his calories has made him much easier to deal with I can't imagine the same result 2 weeks ago when he was eating one meal a day."

I think he does not see any consequences at the moment and he thinks you are not able to stop that. He tries to be normal so everyone will see that it is your problem. It is not. But try to get him with that, serve big heavy meals and if he argues about not eating them tell him "you said you have no ED, so I see no cause not to eat that now. You can proof easily that I am wrong by just eating it."

Keep fighting. You caught it early and he can have a short recovery then.
Tina72

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teecee

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Reply with quote  #38 
Absolutely well done for getting him there!
Sometimes our kids give us clues...it’s not unheard of them to ‘snitch’ on the eating disorder or give subtle clues in the hope that you will pick up on it so the fact that your S said that about the ED talking could actually be him inside being relieved that you are going to these lengths to help him.
Defo start feeding him up. My Ds clinician picked up on the fact that my D had been ‘clean eating’ - a term which is feared and causing huge issues for our NHS. ‘Clean eating’ is very dangerous but unfortunately my D was being bombarded with it online to the point where my smart girl, who wants to do everything right, including getting healthy, bought into it and became seriously ill with anorexia following their stupid advice. It is a billion dollar industry so no wonder they want to sell it. If you have heard you S use that term then you know there is a problem. Fortunately the clinician in CAMHS countered the argument to my D and she was devastated that she had followed an eating plan that fed in to the EDs hands.
In terms of CAMHS services in your area...give them a call I’ve found them to be incredibly helpful with advice over the phone.
Try the Beat website also for punchy facts....you could get your S to look at it too as my D found it really helpful (CAMHS) recommended it to us.
Keep fighting for your lovely S and remember...compassion towards him will help you through this nightmare (and for yourself). You’re a good mum...no one asks for this.
Xx
akeys

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Reply with quote  #39 
Thanks Teecee and tina72

His growth and weight was always dead in the middle of the chart. He is 6ft1 now.

Yes I will keep trying to feed him up and will call CAMHS if he goes down hill again.
teecee

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Reply with quote  #40 
Just a thought in terms of referral times....you’re right, referral times from GPs are lengthy and secondary in some counties to referrals from school counsellors. Is he in 6th form? If so it would be wise, if his school has it, to contact the Extended Services staff and make the referral to CAMHS through them - much quicker turn around.
If that is not an option, or even if it is, I would still ring CAMHS next week and let them know your GP has referred him and let them know all the concerns you have. They may have an opening and invite you in for assessment.
Good luck.
Xx
tina72

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Reply with quote  #41 
Quote:
Originally Posted by akeys
Thanks Teecee and tina72 His growth and weight was always dead in the middle of the chart. He is 6ft1 now. Yes I will keep trying to feed him up and will call CAMHS if he goes down hill again.


So if he was always on 50% percentile he should go back to that and that would be a BMI around 21/22.
Tina72

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d off to University now 22 months after diagnose, still doing FBT and relapse prevention 
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