F.E.A.S.T's Around The Dinner Table forum

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Ortho7 Show full post »
debra18
It is doubtful your daughter will engage with them or tell them what is going on. The therapist needs to tell your daughter to eat what you give her and support you in the process.
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Foodsupport_AUS
Unfortunately a single visit to CAMHS is not likely to make any major changes, please don't pin your hopes on this. It is normal and expected for her to say she doesn't want help, doesn't want to get better - even if she does. Setting firm but loving boundaries around what needs to happen and insisting on three meals, three snacks per day with loads of distraction afterwards once she has eaten and you will slowly move forward. It is exhausting. 
D diagnosed restrictive AN June 2010 age 13. Initially weight restored 2012. Relapse and continuously edging towards recovery. Treatment: multiple hospitalisations and individual and family therapy.
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Hendrixt
Do you know whether the referral has gone to general CAHMS or to the Community Eating Disorder Service (CEDS). Most areas have a CEDS, which is actually part of CAHMS, but, unlike general mental health CAHMS services, it is staffed by clinicians who are specialists in eating disorders and who will help you to urgently get your D to start eating a 6 meal a day food plan. Some GPS don’t realise that there is a CEDS and incorrectly refer into general CAHMS. When you go to your CAHMS appointment I strongly advise that you check whether you are in fact seeing the CEDS. If you have not been referred into CEDS and there is one in your area I suggest you insist on being re-routed to the CEDS. As a parent you can in fact, yourself, refer your D into the CEDS. If you google it they should have their own website with instructions on self-referral. Please be aware that if you remain in general CAHMS you need to check that the clinicians are experienced in eating disorders and that treatment is urgent focussed on re feeding your D

Really do hope you can get sone urgent expert help. Good luck !
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deenl
Hi Ortho,

wishing you the best of luck at the appointment. Your daughter's reaction is completely typical, even down to the words used. It is very likely that she will not share anything beyond what she said to you with Camhs today. My son still has not even 4 years later. The good news is that we parents can still insist on recovery behaviours, beginning with setting up a meal time routine and adequate levels of nourishment. Don't be discouraged; it will most likely take 4-6 weeks before the routine is set and it will be very, very difficult but it is possible in most cases. I highly recommend both books mentioned above. Honestly, knowledge is your best weapon against the illness.

Warm wishes,

D
2015 12yo son restricting but no body image issues, no fat phobia; lost weight IP! Oct 2015 home, stable but no progress. Medical hosp to kick start recovery Feb 2016. Slowly and cautiously gaining weight at home and seeing signs of our real kid.

May 2017 Hovering around WR. Mood great, mostly. Building up hour by hour at school after 18 months at home. Summer 2017 Happy, first trip away in years, food variety, begin socialising. Sept 2017, back to school FT first time in 2 years. [thumb] 2018 growing so fast hard to keep pace with weight
  • Swedish proverb: Love me when I least deserve it because that's when I need it most.
  • We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence Recovery, then, is not an act but a habit. Aristotle.
  • If the plan doesn't work, change the plan but never the goal.
  • We cannot control the wind but we can direct the sail.
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Ortho7
So we went to the appointment to CAMHS
we got to see an ED councillor and a consulyant ED doctor who was amazing. 
We were there over 2 hours with the doctor talking to us about the process and the nurse putting together a meal plan. 
The consultant then just saw our daughter and explained that she had AN and that there was a team of people looking after her. 
Pit was like a light had been switched on. She is looking forward to family therapy and excited about having her own psychologist. She realises she has a problem. 
We have been prescribed Olanzapine and fortsip. 
Straight away she had a fortsip and for lunch managed half a ham sandwich and half a glass of water. She has to have 3 fortsips a day to give her 900 calories at least. 
We have a further appt with the nurse in 2 days and with the consultant in 7. 
Today has been positive but I know it's going to be a long road yet. 
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deenl
So happy for you all that she responded so well. I hope it continues like that and the illness has a very short course.

Warm wishes,

D
2015 12yo son restricting but no body image issues, no fat phobia; lost weight IP! Oct 2015 home, stable but no progress. Medical hosp to kick start recovery Feb 2016. Slowly and cautiously gaining weight at home and seeing signs of our real kid.

May 2017 Hovering around WR. Mood great, mostly. Building up hour by hour at school after 18 months at home. Summer 2017 Happy, first trip away in years, food variety, begin socialising. Sept 2017, back to school FT first time in 2 years. [thumb] 2018 growing so fast hard to keep pace with weight
  • Swedish proverb: Love me when I least deserve it because that's when I need it most.
  • We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence Recovery, then, is not an act but a habit. Aristotle.
  • If the plan doesn't work, change the plan but never the goal.
  • We cannot control the wind but we can direct the sail.
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debra18
I hope things continue to be good for you. For my daughter she also seemed compliant at the beginning. But than all the behaviors started like hiding food, lying, etc. Please look for these behaviors and stop them as soon as they start.
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Mamaroo
I'm  glad you found a good team and that she's listening to them.just keep on feeding. Sending you lots of hugs 🤗🤗🤗🤗
D became obsessed with exercise at age 9 and started eating 'healthy' at age 9.5. Restricting couple of months later. IP for 2 weeks at age 10. Slowly refed for months on Ensures alone, followed by swap over with food at a snails pace. WR after a year at age 11 in March 2017. View my recipes on my YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKLW6A6sDO3ZDq8npNm8_ww
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Enn
Hi Ortho7,
hoping that your d is doing well.
you just popped into my head, so I thought I would reach out.
XXX
When within yourself you find the road, the right road will open.  (Dejan Stojanovic)

Food+more food+time+love+good professional help+ATDT+no exercise+ state not just weight+/- the "right" medicine= healing---> recovery(--->life without ED)
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Ortho7
We are a week in and seeing the ED consultant tomorrow. We are in a better place than we were last week but still doesn't finish her meals and refusing any snacks. She has the fortisip 3 times a day but complains she feels full and is emotional after every meal. We are giving her lots of hugs. 
Lim hoping after speaking to the consultant tomorrow she can help Her
see the importance of having snacks. Her advice to our d last week really saw us on our way. 
our d keeps saying she has ate too much and she feels fine so doesn't need to eat as much food.  I see she is really struggling mentally. 
What shall I say to her?
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debra18
Distractions! You don't need to say anything. Reading books, art projects, games. Anything that takes her mind off of those feelings after eating.
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Mamaroo
A short "I can see this is hard for you" followed by "look at these funny cat videos". Try not to respond to what she is saying, that is just the anxiety talking and I learned that when you are a broken record that she will say these things less and less. She's looking at you to lessen her anxiety and you can do this by being calm and confident (even if you have to fake it at first). When my d started to visibly gain weight, she would complain how fat she was and all I would say is "you are not fat" over and over so that whenever that thought got into her mind, she would hear my voice in her head.
D became obsessed with exercise at age 9 and started eating 'healthy' at age 9.5. Restricting couple of months later. IP for 2 weeks at age 10. Slowly refed for months on Ensures alone, followed by swap over with food at a snails pace. WR after a year at age 11 in March 2017. View my recipes on my YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKLW6A6sDO3ZDq8npNm8_ww
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ValentinaGermania
Please read your last post again, you have mentioned a name (I think by incident) and I would suggest you change that with the edit pencil you find it at the three points on the right top of the post if you are loged in.

"She has the fortisip 3 times a day but complains she feels full and is emotional after every meal."

That is normal, she IS full because her stomach has shrunk and it is a muscle and needs to get bigger again with every meal and that needs time. My d had that fullness feeling for about 6 months after we started refeeding. It is also normal that ED is making them a bad time after each meal. In her head she gets blamed a lot that she was "so week and has eaten". Distraction, distraction, distraction. Take her out if possible to go to a store (no food store) or see a friend.

"our d keeps saying she has ate too much and she feels fine so doesn't need to eat as much food.  I see she is really struggling mentally. 
What shall I say to her?"

Take the blame away from her and take the guilt on you. Tell her it is not her decision and she must eat that and you are in charge until she is better and the doctors prescribed that amount of food and that it is needed and not her choice. That helps in most cases.
Keep feeding. There is light at the end of the tunnel.
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Ortho7
Does anyone know where I can order benecalorie from in the uk or a product that is similar? I have read it on a post but it was American. 
Has anyone else used it and what foods did they use it in?
thanks
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ValentinaGermania
Another way to get it in Europe is Ebay. But also expensive. We had 2-3 boxes in the refeeding time but I would not buy it again today. Butter, cream and oil works similiar and is way cheaper.
You can use Benecalorie in all warm sauces, rice, white soups. Not so great in mashed potatoes and cold suff like yoghurt as it changes the texture.
Rapeseed oil, as Ronson suggested, is better in yoghurt, applesauce, fruit smoothies and also great in warm sauces and rice. With mashed potatoes cream and butter works best.
Keep feeding. There is light at the end of the tunnel.
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Hendrixt
Simple smoothies using full fat milk, double (heavy) cream, strawberries, honey and a few drops of strawberry flavouring to offset the cream taste, were, and still are, life savers for us. There are loads of recipes on this website. If you can get a high calorie smoothie in for breakfast then it’s piece of mind for the start of the day. We looked at Ensure, which many people use, but didn’t bother with it as we realised there are more calories in the smoothies we give her. Smoothies are also useful as back up for a failed meal - to make sure you don’t lose calories. 

How are are you getting on with CAHMS? We are from the UK and in CAHMS 
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Ellesmum
My local pharmacy sells ensure but homemade smoothies are better,  I also used Complan (the neutral one) a lot, it goes well into powdery foods and drinks like hot chocolate.   I got through gallons of rapeseed oil too. Oil will disappear if drizzled onto baked foods like pizza. 
Ellesmum
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Enn
Ortho7,
if you give us a sample of what the meals are in a day we can help to show you how to  beef up the calories.
for example,  I would add a few tablespoons of cream to milk.(heavy whipping cream). I used grape juice more than orange juice 180 versus 110-120 cal per 250 ml, I added a lot of olive oil to pasta dishes. I added  the cream to yogurt too. 
I could not get benecalorie here in Canada either.
When within yourself you find the road, the right road will open.  (Dejan Stojanovic)

Food+more food+time+love+good professional help+ATDT+no exercise+ state not just weight+/- the "right" medicine= healing---> recovery(--->life without ED)
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Yogi13
My d has issues with dairy (pre AN diagnosis), so milk and cream weren’t an option.  I use a lot of oil, plant based butter, mayonnaise on sandwiches, avocados, high calorie drinks, coconut milk ice cream, oat milk and pastas/breads.  We are still plugging away over here, but all of this allowed her to gain approx 23 lbs and we have been re feeding since May.  I was skeptical about this program at first with all the yelling, screaming and resistance from d, but IT WORKS.  

Xx
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mamabear
Ortho-
Bottom line. YOU have to be MORE SCARED of your daughter DYING than of her ED whining, screaming, spitting, throwing, begging etc. Because it will. In those early days I had spaghetti in my hair, food on the ceiling, my daughter punched her dad in the jaw etc. And the WORST is when ED uses the eyes of your beloved child to have big tears and to say "Mommy just please don't make me do this. I will try again later. Please, mommy!" It is SO HARD. This goes against your mom instincts to just pull her into your arms and tell her it is ok and she can try again later. But that is how ED will kill her. EVERY single bite that does not go into her matters. You have to find the inner strength to save your child. Picture it outside of her/ separate from her. It is a black beast with talons digging into her shoulders whispering horrific lies. You are there to kill that beast. FOOD is her only way out of this and only medicine. She needs to gain a lot of weight. Her BMI is very low. My daughter was hospitalized at that weight. She needs to be medically evaluated pronto. 

This disease is beatable. And the best chance you have of beating it is to intervene now and intervene hardcore. 3 meals and 3 snacks all day every day. I would recommend taking off of work for several months if you can. all LIFE STOPS UNTIL YOU EAT. Period. Nothing else matters. 
I took the doors off hinges, sat outside the bathroom toilet and shower and had her talk to me. I slept with my d for over a year to keep her from night exercising. Check drawers and garbages etc often. No sweatshirts or pockets at the table, No napkins. Absolutely NO ZERO NADA sports or exercise of any kind. 
I am telling you this as a mom who had a very very sick child at age 10 who is now 19 and has been in solid recovery for many years. She is thriving on her own at college  8 hours from home. Get Lauren Mulheims Book NOW and read it cover to cover and use it as your bible. Eva Musby's book too. Read "Brave Girls Eating" by Harriet Brown. Read the new study that came out last week- this is a genetic biologically based disease of metabolism and the brain. YOU CAN DO THIS! Ask questions here! We got you mama!
Persistent, consistent vigilance!
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Ortho7
Hi mamabear 
thank you for your post. 
I do have the book by Laura Mulheim. I think the chapter about mealtime strategies is really useful. I got my husband to read it last night and today he took a new approach and it payed off. Today has been the hardest day yet. Our d had a complete meltdown over having a snack but lots of tears and an hour later she sat and ate it. She probably burnt all the calories having the melt down but by sticking to our guns hopefully she knows we mean business. I feel we are getting stronger in our discipline of eating every day but our d's resistance is getting stronger. 
We eventually managed to get the blood tests done last week after 3 visits and an ecg. Our d was so dehydrated.  Everything was low but the consultant said there were no surprises and was typical of starvation. They said we were lucky our d hadn't had a cardiac arrest with all the sport she was still doing. 
We are having some further bloods taken in 2 weeks and her weight and blood pressure are checked at every appointment. 
This week we were meant to be on a cruise but I'm glad we cancelled. Instead we brought some garden chairs and been driving out different places and sitting by the river having a picnic. 
Any ideas on calorific snacks? At the moment our d won't touch a chocolate bar or crisps. She has had a sweet waffle for breakfast once. 
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mamabear
Assume it WILL get worse before it gets better. Those first few weeks/months are so very hard. 
It doesn’t matter how long it takes to get that food in, it must be eaten. You are doing a good job of grasping this. 

Im telling you from 9 years now in this world that the faster the weight gain the better. It is going to be hard no matter what but why make the hell last any longer? 

I did daily milkshakes for 2.5 years. Cream, Hagen Das or BenAnd Jerry’s  and canola oil. We did anything with butter and cream and oils. Nuts, pastas with sauces, creamy soups. You can make spaghetti and put olive oil on her noodles and melt butter in her marinara. You can melt butter into soups, scrambled eggs made with cream, cheese, scrambled in butter. 
Persistent, consistent vigilance!
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