F.E.A.S.T's Around The Dinner Table forum

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sunny6
Our child has been working on their ED for about 2.5 years.  There has been a lot of behaviors and resistance.  We were really struggling and were ready for another round of IOP this year.  However, nothing was available and we started the process on our own again.  A few weeks ago, there was a small dip and we backed up again and started over with supervision.  In the last two weeks, we have seen a child who is laughing, interacting, and trying new things.  While most items are no or low calorie that they are trying, they are beyond the meal plan and in the past would never have been touched as it wasn't on their plate. We plate supper and allow them to plate breakfast, lunch and snacks.  While those meals are pretty set without much change right now, we are seeing things like this or even the first use of a condiment that wasn't dressing on a salad in 2.5 years.  

Does the switch happen that fast for them to start trying new or different things?  We know there is still a lot of work to do, but this change to try things they wouldn't for so long even with no calorie value is amazing.

New meds were added about 6 weeks ago, so maybe that is helping.  We see less anxiety.  It is still there and there are periods where the ED still beats up our child.  We have been cautious as we have seen the lower anxiety before and weight was lost due to sneaking behaviors.  No sign of this and weight was gained recently.  We worry that they are trying to do all of this for us and not for themselves and are just pretending to be happy when in fact, they may not be.

Also, the expected weight gained was slower with no real change in calories.  We have dealt with a high metabolism for such a long time.  Does this really happen once truly weight restored?  We were always told it would, but never were sure it would.  We have been checking at night for exercising in bed, tossed food, etc, but no signs.  We so want this to be a big step forward for our child.    
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teecee

And it sounds like it is a huge step. Believe it 😊
What great news. Real brain healing is happening. Some families successfully refeed on safe foods and the key is consistency. 

Here we had intensive refeeding of lots of fear foods but then when hading back independence (too early) my D sought out safe foods refusing the usual fats. We persevered with adding fats wherever possibly and slowly but surly she came back. That saying ‘state not weight’ is what I used as a measure although bad and low moods coincided with a little weight loss. You will start to see the mood improving for sure. There may be a cycle so watch out for any. Here it was a few weeks good mood then a slump and low mood for a week or two. Keep pushing through and feed. Food is always the answer 😊
I don’t think she’s trying to trick you although you are wise to keep watching. 

We have just come out of a period of the same meals without dumping food - consistency eating. We are going through a period of eating completely normally as though the restrictions and cycles are a thing of the past. We are daring to believe this is recovery but it feels good. This happened very quickly (over the course of a month). She feels free she says. I find that things do tend to change very quickly but you can’t put your finger on when that moment was. 

Just enjoy the moments you are getting. They will become more and more. Im so pleased for you. Keep moving forward - change is good 👍🏻😊

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Enn

I think this is wonderful. My d added in condiments as well before some other things. That is a great big step forward. I am so pleased for you. 

I am sure that my d could not have feigned happy interactions when she was really sick with ED. So I think what you are seeing is real. 

Being cautious is fine but please celebrate these changes. I am so glad to see this update. I am so happy for you all!!

As for the metabolism for my d at two years after menarche her metabolism slowed down, which was a good 2 years after a good WR. My d had continued to gain about properly , then there was a blip last year and back on track for 9 months to date and needs a lot less than last year.
🌺

When within yourself you find the road, the right road will open.  (Dejan Stojanovic)

Food+more food+time+love+good professional help+ATDT+no exercise+ state not just weight+/- the "right" medicine= healing---> recovery(--->life without ED)
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sunny6
Does weight gain slow down as they are weight restored even when given the same number of calories that a year prior would cause good gain?  We were told at the start that that would be how we knew when they were wr.  They would eat the same as their gaining plan but not gain weight.
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Enn
My d did settle at 3500 to 4000 per day for about a year after WR then we just started giving her more normal portions and she is gaining on her curve. Now when I say that, there was a time I thought she was eating 4000 and was losing, well ED was dumping food! Then back to full supervision and 4000 cal per day for about 6 months then down to about 3000 now and still on her curve with appropriate gains. 
When within yourself you find the road, the right road will open.  (Dejan Stojanovic)

Food+more food+time+love+good professional help+ATDT+no exercise+ state not just weight+/- the "right" medicine= healing---> recovery(--->life without ED)
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deenl
Oh, the sheer bliss of hearing them laugh or sing again. I get emotional still thinking about it.

My son ate safe foods for about 18 months, I think. So the change to regular food was quite quick and easy without much fear or emotion. He was at a reasonably good weight and was sick to death of the other foods. We went on holidays and I had safe foods for 3 days as travelling was enough of a challenge and then he just had to eat what was available. The change of scene made it easier. There was a token attempt to go back to the old ways once we returned home but was quickly squashed by me.

My son has continued to eat a higher calorie diet as I have never considered us to be WR. He had an enormous amount of internal repair (he was very, very underweight), puberty had been totally delayed and his growth was very stunted. In the 4.5 years we have been at this, I have always been playing catch up, he would be a decent weight and then he'd grow and I be behind the curve again. He just had his first shave at 17.5 so I think he is well along in puberty and his growth is only a few centimeters behind his older brother so I think we are nearly there.

Aside from the state being well, how is your child doing with growth etc? Are there other signs of recovery, reduction in the subtle ED symptoms or other signs of mental health?

I would be likely to continue with high calories for the moment as they can't do much harm and cutting back too early and trying to restart them would be much more difficult. But I think each set of parents is best placed to make that decision for themselves.

So happy that you are seeing good things

Hugs,

D
2015 12yo son restricting but no body image issues, no fat phobia; lost weight IP! Oct 2015 home, stable but no progress. Medical hosp to kick start recovery Feb 2016. Slowly and cautiously gaining weight at home and seeing signs of our real kid.

May 2017 Hovering around WR. Mood great, mostly. Building up hour by hour at school after 18 months at home. Summer 2017 Happy, first trip away in years, food variety, begin socialising. Sept 2017, back to school FT first time in 2 years. [thumb] 2018 growing so fast hard to keep pace with weight
  • Swedish proverb: Love me when I least deserve it because that's when I need it most.
  • We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence Recovery, then, is not an act but a habit. Aristotle.
  • If the plan doesn't work, change the plan but never the goal.
  • We cannot control the wind but we can direct the sail.
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Heidimg
Gosh so nice to hear there is a end or even change .
i sometimes think there is no end to
this and feel like giving up , doing meal plans , buying the food , weighing it before and after and throwing most of it in the bin !!
so good to hear success storied 
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teecee
Heidimg 
yes, nothing stays the same forever...even the hard times. One day at a time...it’s a marathon and not a sprint. We were diagnosed March 18 after a pretty horrendous few months resulting in two trips to A&E in quick succession. Since then recovery has been like a squiggly line similar to Mr Messy from the Mr Men stories 😁 .... fast forward to May 20 and she is eating normally....I would say in remission as I don’t want to jinx it!!! It does feel ‘normal’ though if you know what I mean. Keep going and pushing through...it’s so worth it. Xx
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MKR
Hi @Heidimg,

Heidimg wrote:
Gosh so nice to hear there is a end or even change .
i sometimes think there is no end to
this and feel like giving up , doing meal plans , buying the food , weighing it before and after and throwing most of it in the bin !!
so good to hear success storied 


It will get better!! You will get your well-deserved gold star, keep up the good work.

So glad for your child and you, @sunny6!!  Laughter was part of our family lives but it's return now is truly precious. Only those who have gone through the hard days of ED know just how much relief and hope it brings! ⭐⭐
Mum's Kitchen

14-y-o "healthy living" led to AN in 2017 and WR at 16. Current muscle dysmorphia.
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sunny6
So just when we thought we turned a corner, our child loses 2.5kg in about 2 weeks.  We can't make any sense of it.  We don't see any behaviors.  Meals are either the same or slightly higher as we notice some lost last week and asked them to increase.  Is this just the body adjusting to their weight or did we miss something?  We have the door open at night to check for exercising.  I check every hour at night and am not seeing anything.  They are with us all day and we stopped walks to stop the loss as well.  Drains are closed, toilets off, clothes and room checked.  Nothing.

What are we missing?  We are beginning to think that all the positive things we saw was because they are getting rid of food somehow.  They are adamant the they are not.  They have told us we can check their room, follow them, and keep the dog put away after meals to prove that they aren't and that this is just their body adjusting.  There is no way.  The meal plan they are on should allow for 1kg a week gain, not a 1kg loss.  It is just a large amount of food that would be gotten rid of in the house and we can't find a bit of it.

I know in the past, when we fed them at this weight and meal plan, they gained into their weight range, so I can't see that this is what their body wants to be.

Does anyone have any ideas?  Would a higher level of prozac cause rapid weight loss?  
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teecee
Certainly metabolism can be high and make it incredibly difficult to keep up with at some points but that should settle down with increased and continuous food. Does she have night sweats at all? Is she able to eat the extra food ok? If mood is good then that’s a positive. I find they can quickly lose weight by not doing too much at all. I’m no expert with the effects of medicine but some medicines do have side effects with weight loss being one. I would speak to the doctor as it could well be undermining what you are trying to achieve. 
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sunny6
No discussion of night sweats.  Mood is bad today as food and observation was increased now that there is pressure to turn this around, which creates more anxiety.  It will be a tough for days for them.  We just can't figure out where the behavior is happening and it seems like too much of a normalizing weight drop.
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Enn
Was the weight taken on the same scale? Just asking as when d was weighed at the paediatrician's office we would get about a 2 kg difference from the therapist's scale. 
If done on the same scale, I am at a loss to explain this as well.
When within yourself you find the road, the right road will open.  (Dejan Stojanovic)

Food+more food+time+love+good professional help+ATDT+no exercise+ state not just weight+/- the "right" medicine= healing---> recovery(--->life without ED)
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sunny6
Yes.  Same scale.  Same time of day.  Same clothes.  I check my own weight as well to make sure it wasn't the scale. 
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PleaseEAT
My d hid weights in her shoes and in her pockets (we too couldn’t understand a weight loss and didn’t find this out till some time later, years actually)
you don’t think that they would be so sneaky but ED is
once hospitalised my d was weighed in only a gown, all underwear, clothing and shoes off
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sunny6
No weights found.  We check for that as well.
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Enn
Sunny6 you are so on the ball. I don’t know what could have done this. I know kartini clinic suggests that the child do a few jumping jacks prior to weighing to dislodge hidden weights from ANY  orifice. Male or female. But I don’t think you have missed anything.
When within yourself you find the road, the right road will open.  (Dejan Stojanovic)

Food+more food+time+love+good professional help+ATDT+no exercise+ state not just weight+/- the "right" medicine= healing---> recovery(--->life without ED)
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MKR
I agree this is bizarre. 

It might mean that there had been weights used (if any) 2 weeks ago and there are none now.  I would focus on feeding in order to catch up with that weight from 2 weeks ago and just keep going.

However, if exercise or laxatives are involved, I would persevere with the supervision, especially around bathroom. My d does most of her exercise silently in the bathroom, and comes out all flushed. Things like plank and wall sits don't involve any movement.

Distraction can help, too. An activity more attractive and engaging than exercise could help. I would also watch for signs of distress when the child feels the guilt of "being lazy" and tries to snatch a moment to purge in some way.

All the best,
Mum's Kitchen

14-y-o "healthy living" led to AN in 2017 and WR at 16. Current muscle dysmorphia.
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Foodsupport_AUS
So sorry to hear this. I agree it sounds like ED is up to something. This sounds a lot like water loading to me. Sudden drops when you think the weight should be going up. My D did it a lot at one stage and it was quite tricky to catch. She would wear bags of water as weights/ put then in her underwear as well as sneaking in drinks, deliberately pee small amounts when asked to pee prior to weighing. 

There is no fool proof way to confirm if it is happening. Ironically my D stopped this herself as she found the sudden gains in weight when she thought she should be losing caused her too much stress. She would try to guess how much she should add to cover up any loss. If there is loss keep feeding and keep those eyes peeled. 
D diagnosed restrictive AN June 2010 age 13. Initially weight restored 2012. Relapse and continuously edging towards recovery. Treatment: multiple hospitalisations and individual and family therapy.
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sunny6
And now today with a surprise weight check, the weight is back up.  Attitude is still very bad.  Any thoughts as to what is going on?  No time to add weights or water load from when we announced the check.
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Enn
I have no idea just that maybe it was the scale as long as you have ruled out the obvious stuff.
I guess you will see what happens with the next weigh in.
Perplexing though, you’ve got me thinking. 
When within yourself you find the road, the right road will open.  (Dejan Stojanovic)

Food+more food+time+love+good professional help+ATDT+no exercise+ state not just weight+/- the "right" medicine= healing---> recovery(--->life without ED)
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MKR
Another thought... if you are using electronic scales, they (or the batteries) do tend to wear off quickly for some reason. But if you say you have weighed yourself as well, then I really don't know.

Could you also weigh say, a small piece of furniture or a suitcase, as an inanimate object has a constant weight. Do it out of sight of your child, of course.
Mum's Kitchen

14-y-o "healthy living" led to AN in 2017 and WR at 16. Current muscle dysmorphia.
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Foodsupport_AUS
Sometimes I found it easier not to ponder too much those changes that didn't make sense. I just worked on weight down more food, weight up steady as she goes. There are so many little things that go into weight, we aren't constant over the course of the day and then over the course of a week there can be even more variation, full bladder, fluid intake, full bowel, hormonal changes and fluid retention just to name a few. If ED  is grumpy you are probably doing something right. 
D diagnosed restrictive AN June 2010 age 13. Initially weight restored 2012. Relapse and continuously edging towards recovery. Treatment: multiple hospitalisations and individual and family therapy.
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