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teecee

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Reply with quote  #51 
Hi clems
I really do feel for you and know how scary it is dealing with the ‘exorcist’
I ended up ringing 999 last week for an ambulance as I was worried my D was going to fit/have convulsions she was screaming so hard and long. Initially the ambulance control were exactly the same - “why aren’t you calling the police?” Errr...because it’s a medical emergency not a criminal issue! What on Earth can the police do...crikey. The ambulance crew were amazing though and very supportive. If you do feel like you need emergency support I would say ambulance if you can’t present at A&E yourself. Things tend to happen when you present at A&E...in my experience anyway. Attending at A&E got us in with the Crisis Team and immediate support.
A day at a time remember...you are seeing the beast so you are certainly doing something right for your D.
Warmest wishes to you. Virtual hugs coming your way. Xx
clem

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Reply with quote  #52 
Thanks Teecee,

Yes, I am certainly seeing the beast, oh my. I know I am challenging it. Good advice re ambulance. I will remember this and hope never to need it.

I just read 'Throwing Starfish Across the Sea' by Charlotte Bevan and Laura Collins. Awe man, wish I had that from the 'start' (the gut feeling something is not right) one year ago! Very inspirational reading -

Sorry you are in the wars too. Sounds like you did the right thing there.

one day at a time.


Hugs always welcome, back at you. x

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D15, Restrictive AN. 5' 8" and 51kg. Diagnosed and hospitalised in Sept 2017 for 9 days. At home since in recovery/relapse/recovery. In the trenches and tackling FBT. Not a vegan anymore!
teecee

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Reply with quote  #53 
Yes hindsight is a great friend but always late! 😁
Stay strong. Xx
Foodsupport_AUS

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Reply with quote  #54 
I have to agree with CAHMS who say she needs to be reviewed to commence medication. It is not at all appropriate for someone to prescribe these sorts of medications over the phone and on second hand advice. As distressed as your D is, I think it is important not to be scared of alienating her or exacerbating her distress by insisting that she see someone for her care including mental health assessment. What can you do to get her an appointment and require her to attend? This may include you and your ex physically moving her. She does not get a choice or a say in this. It sounds as though mentally she is getting close to requiring certification as she is a physical danger to herself.

You are a brave mum doing the best you can. Being a single parent I can really empathise with how hard it is when this is all down to you.  Sending lots of cyber hugs to you. 



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D diagnosed restrictive AN June 2010 age 13.5. Weight restored July 2012. Relapse and now clawing our way back. Treatment: multiple hospitalisations and individual and family therapy.
clem

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Reply with quote  #55 
Yes I agree Foodsupport_AUS. I am going to make an appointment tomorrow to see the lead consultant ASAP. I'll just have to think about how to get D there. She needs to have a review and urgently and I do hope they can see that she needs help in one form or another.

I so much want to re-feed and heal her at home, but it's hopeless at the moment. What I am doing just isn't enough and I do fear for her deeply.

Thank you so much for the kind words too.


x

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D15, Restrictive AN. 5' 8" and 51kg. Diagnosed and hospitalised in Sept 2017 for 9 days. At home since in recovery/relapse/recovery. In the trenches and tackling FBT. Not a vegan anymore!
Mamaroo

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Reply with quote  #56 
Hi Clem, sorry you had such a bad day! It really sucks! I hope you get an appointment soon. I told me d if she self harmed or hurt any of us, I would take her to emergency. It helped her to calm down, but I would not hesitate to take her. If your d needs to go inpatient, it is not the end of the world. Plenty of us needed our children to be hospitalised to kick start the fight with ED.

Sending you plenty of hugs!!!! 

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D became obsessed with exercise at age 9. Started eating 'healthy' at age 9.5. Restricting couple of months later. IP for 2 weeks at age 10. Slowly refed for months on Ensures alone, followed by swap over with food at a snails pace. WR after a year at age 11 in March 2017. She is back to her old happy self and can eat anything put in front of her. Now working on intuitive eating.
tina72

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Reply with quote  #57 
Hi clem,
can you ask a family member or a friend to help you get your d there?
Tina72
Kali

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Reply with quote  #58 
Hi Clem,

As far as medication for anxiety goes, are drs in the UK able to prescribe that? They are here in the US. A GP is qualified to prescribe anxiety and depression medication if someone presents with symptoms. If her GP, who she will go to, will prescribe something for her anxiety perhaps you could go that route right now while you are waiting for an appointment with CAMHS? She needs to be evaluated by CAMHS either way but if it is a question of timing and ease (because she will see the GP) perhaps try that?

Quote:
I so much want to re-feed and heal her at home, but it's hopeless at the moment. What I am doing just isn't enough and I do fear for her deeply.


You are right to be reaching out for help. This can be reframed as the eating disorder is very strong right now, not that you are not doing your best and trying or that it is hopeless. Every bit of food that she eats right now can be considered a victory. Be patient and just keep at it. Sometimes residential treatment or hospitalization can jumpstart the process of achieving remission. Violence, self harm, low weight, food refusal and family exhaustion can indicate that a higher level of care is needed and it sounds from what you are saying, that it might be helpful for her.

warmly, 

Kali



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clem

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Reply with quote  #59 
Thanks FEAST family.

Mamaroo "I told me d if she self harmed or hurt any of us, I would take her to emergency. It helped her to calm down, but I would not hesitate to take her."
I did say this to D, it only elevates her anger, last time she spat in my face, told me what an awful mother I am and where to go. I will of course not hesitate, but might instead ring the ambulance to come to us.

Sadly, our GP is not able to issue medication for depression/anxiety, not whilst D is under CAMHS. I have requested an appointment for D to see the Lead Consultant URGENTLY (waiting for a date now) and I have requested an appointment for me to see the full team, if they are going to be on board, they must support me in a way that is going to be effectual. I have been urged by the GP and my Dad to contact child services to at least log current situation and see if they can support me further re medication/IP.

When the appointment for D to see the lead consultant comes around, yes indeed, I will probably need to get some physical help.

I need to relax too, am at my wits end most of the time and spontaneously cry. I did this yesterday at work in a meeting no less! It was my time to talk and I could not find the right word at a certain moment, so I just welled up and burst into tears. Oh Crumbs! They were very understanding and my boss jumped in to finish my sentence (he knows what is going on at home).

You are completely right Kali, "Every bit of food that she eats right now can be considered a victory. Be patient and just keep at it." I am obsessed with how to get more into her, but need to remember she is eating 3 times a days, plus snacks, which is at least balanced throughout the day and does give her some nutrition (1200 cals). So for now, this is something to be mindful of.

soggy hugs today.

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D15, Restrictive AN. 5' 8" and 51kg. Diagnosed and hospitalised in Sept 2017 for 9 days. At home since in recovery/relapse/recovery. In the trenches and tackling FBT. Not a vegan anymore!
toothfairy

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Reply with quote  #60 
Hi clem,
My advice would be for you to take CAMHS up on the offer to see you without your D.
Many families have done this where the carer goes to the appointment without the sufferer. If the team is good they may be able to steer you onto the right track.

Re the Dietitian offering to come to your house for a session. I think that is a good idea. They may be able to help her, or at worst see what you are dealing with and guide you from there.

Getting 1200 calories a day is not enough and she will become more ill and entrenched by the day. Can you add butter, cream, canola oil, powdered almonds to the food.

Have you seen the Eva Musby's videos.
Her website is also great and her book too.







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Food is the medicine. Recovery is possible.
clem

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Reply with quote  #61 
What a crazy couple weeks it has been!

The exorcist is increasing in both volume and size... I must be challenging the hell out of AN. AN hates me more and more each day. There really is no break with this so far, this bit is the bit that really sucks sour lemons.

CAMHS have been and continue to be useless.... but I did find an EDS dietician who works from the hospital D was it 8 months ago. It will take some time for D to gain her trust, but for now and through me, D is getting some needed answers and education with nutrition.

CAMHS will not issue any medication as they feel D is depressed/expressing thoughts of suicide, they think it will make it worse....

On the MASSIVE UP though.....

I have managed to increase D's calories, not by a lot but it's a start and it's consistent. We are at 1400. aaaaaaand....... she ate dairy for the first time today in over 1 year (currentlyvegan) aaaaand she asked to go to the supermarket 2 days in a row (has refused to go out of the house in months, except for local GP visits) aaaaaand has put fear foods in the trolley.

The calories have to increase more of course (I am trying very hard with this), but wow, what a great moment hey?

It has of course really brought out the full exorcist BIG TIME, but I guess that is AN, it is a big horrible bully to both me and my D.

ps: I went for both MRI and scan on my hip, waiting for results!

xxxxxxxx

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D15, Restrictive AN. 5' 8" and 51kg. Diagnosed and hospitalised in Sept 2017 for 9 days. At home since in recovery/relapse/recovery. In the trenches and tackling FBT. Not a vegan anymore!
teecee

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Reply with quote  #62 
Hi Clem

I tell you what, I will high five you for getting to go out of the house 2 days running even if it is to the supermarket. You are definitely moving forward 😊
It may just be me as my H always tells me I’m super cautious and need to chill but the fact that she’s going to the supermarket may be ED trying to assert some control over what’s being bought. Just be mindful of that, I dont want to extinguish the positively you feel about getting out.
We were advised by the T to avoid taking our D to do food shops and she later admitted all she saw was a sea of red labels.
AN is a big bully but bullies are cowards and need a swift kick up the butt and out of your house! You are well on the way...believe that.

Virtual hugs xx


Mamaroo

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Reply with quote  #63 
Hi

Very happy to hear from you again Clem! Those are big golden moments. High five for the dairy and fear food!

I remember having to bribe my d to go to a big shopping mall. Usually I went to a smaller local shopping centre, which was close enough so I can leave just after a meal and be back home in time for the next one, but they don't have a proper shoe store and I was in need of shoes. So she had to come along. I packed her snack and she had it in the car and afterwards she walked in the mall with her sister. It was so nice to do something normal again!

Just keep on pushing, you got this!


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D became obsessed with exercise at age 9. Started eating 'healthy' at age 9.5. Restricting couple of months later. IP for 2 weeks at age 10. Slowly refed for months on Ensures alone, followed by swap over with food at a snails pace. WR after a year at age 11 in March 2017. She is back to her old happy self and can eat anything put in front of her. Now working on intuitive eating.
tina72

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Reply with quote  #64 
Hi clem,
you are doing great! Try to get to 1600 for the next week and go on with fear food! Keep on pushing the diaries, that will give you great opportunity to get something in!
Keep swimming! You will get that!
Tina72
clem

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Reply with quote  #65 
Thankyouuuuuuuuu.

I hear you Teecee re the labels, I have been quite strict about this, so far D is complying and not paying too much attention to them! i think the thought of slowly adding dairy has enabled her not to hawk eye each label. She looks at a product for suitable ingredients and bungs it in the trolley!

She had a ready made pancake today, it was a small one - but WOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOO.

tina72, agreed am planning the next phase in increasing bit by bit.

I am hoping that the enjoyment of new foods is spurring D to want more. If not, then I'll just continue to sneak calories in where I can.

Even though D is SO shouty and angry and mentally unstable at certain times of the day, I am feeling more positive than I have felt for a long time!

xxxxxxxx Hugs right back to you.

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D15, Restrictive AN. 5' 8" and 51kg. Diagnosed and hospitalised in Sept 2017 for 9 days. At home since in recovery/relapse/recovery. In the trenches and tackling FBT. Not a vegan anymore!
clem

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Reply with quote  #66 
Hi everyone,

Good news update mostly...... it's just very hard to get by mentally/emotionally, both D and myself.

D is up to 1500 calories, 2 days now. YAAAAAAAAAAY. I am so proud of her. I have found through months of trying, 'magic plate' just does not work for us. I cook all of the food (so can sneak stuff in here and there) but for the most, the planning and plating comes from D (with me supervising of course). It is not ideal (slow going), but since it's working and she is now eating dairy 3 times a week, I feel this is a way forward.

D has always done absolutely everything the hard way and this is no exception. She is no longer a vegan, has graduate to a vegetarian (was a vegan for 1 and a half years), but has to remain in some sort of control in order to do this. I don't like it, but it works for her. She has managed to increase 500 calories in the last few weeks. D is also increasing fear foods on top of this!

Increasing the calories has of course made her anger, shame, temper and everything worse. For me and me only it is directed to and is positively unbearable (cannot imagine how it feels for D), but I know we are really now properly fighting the AN 1billion headed hydra. Right now, every single thing i say is wrong and creates a new double head on the already 1 billion headed hydra.

We do not talk at all at the moment except for the dreaded 3 times a day that she demands me to look her up and down and tell her if she has increased in size or not! It is relentless and she gets very nasty when I reply with the same mantra 'I see no change' Since I threw out the scales, this is stinking thing. D of course screams and shouts that she is a fat horrible cow and wants to die, marches off and gets a coffee. I feel she is safe )but always monitoring), but I do feel the rage is very concerning when she gets into one.... so far if I leave her alone, she calms down, even if I have to sit next to her bedroom door.

Thank goodness we have the dogs, they are therapy for both of us. I had a sneaky look at her diary and she lists positive goals and the want to fight AN, get her life back, go back to school..... it's amazing, why on earth do I get the exorcist and the bloody diary gets D thoughts!

Any advise on how to respond to the 1billion headed hydra with the obvious weight gain questions?

Picture of me!

anigif_enhanced-4992-1444326869-2.gif 


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D15, Restrictive AN. 5' 8" and 51kg. Diagnosed and hospitalised in Sept 2017 for 9 days. At home since in recovery/relapse/recovery. In the trenches and tackling FBT. Not a vegan anymore!
teecee

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Reply with quote  #67 
Hi Clem

I really have to say you are truly wonderful. I’m in awe of how youve dealt with this. It does suck that youR D puts her thoughts in writing and they are nicer than the way she treats you verbally. Might this be to appease the bully in her head?? Have you tried writing to her? You may get a pleasant response back...
Just a thought to try anything. Having said that I feel you are well on your way to seeing your lovely D as you remember her from before ED.
When I got those questions I would say ‘ I know this is tough for you but I’m not getting in to this’ or ‘ you look healthily nourished’
After giving those standard responses the demanding questioning quietened down and eventually stopped. Just try to be consistent...a brick wall.

Keep swimming....you’re so close. Xxxx
clem

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Reply with quote  #68 
Thanks Teecee, that makes me feel so good and means a lot!

brick wall yes and thanks for the other suggestions. We do text a lot, as D finds it a bit easier to communicate that way, but at certain times of the day, the text turns into caps lock and hail mary! I usually respond the same to the weight gain questions and mention I'll not respond to abusive texts.

Yes, she has a big bully in her head! her diary is amazing though, even though she has no idea that I look at it, that is what gives me hope, that she is really trying to fight this and gain her life/independence back. It's just then so bizarre to see what I can only explain as another being inside her.

xxxx

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D15, Restrictive AN. 5' 8" and 51kg. Diagnosed and hospitalised in Sept 2017 for 9 days. At home since in recovery/relapse/recovery. In the trenches and tackling FBT. Not a vegan anymore!
teecee

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Reply with quote  #69 
Yes some of the most important conversations I’ve had with my D have been via text as it’s so much more easier for her to express her feelings that way and I get the truth about how she feels.
She is doing so well and the journaling will help her release a lot of those emotions to empty her head. My D keeps a journal and it has really helped her heal.
I know you know this but I just want to remind you that when she’s being nasty it’s because she’s really anxious and frightened. She will probably not remember a lot if it when she is well.
The fact that she has hopes and looks to a better future is a real positive that means she trust you are able to be strong and help her get there. Our kids can’t often do that on their own they need us as a support.
Last week my D had a bit of a negative dig at me and hubby which really upset me as we had come so far and it just got on top of me. My hubby later spoke to her and let her know in no certain terms that whilst he accepted she had gone through hell with AN, he wanted her to know that we had gone through hell with her too. It was like he was telling her something she wasn’t aware of and she completely changed her attitude towards us and became so loving towards me especially. I’m not advocating you do this but there may come a time when the ED beast is almost gone and hey need a bit of reality bringing in to the mix. I’m so glad he did it although if he’d told me what he was planning I would have talked him out if it for fear of making things worse.

Stay strong. You are so very near her overcoming the worst. Xxx
tina72

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Reply with quote  #70 
Hi clem,
you are doing great! I now can imagine that you will hit the 2000 over the summer!
I would not tell her that she looks "healthily nourished" because for an AN sufferer that means "fat".
I would really try not to answer and not to engage in this talk at all. I would possibly say: "Your sight of yourself is different from my sight of you at the moment and you don´t like how I see you and therefor I will not engage in that because we are just arguing about that and I don´t want to argue with you."
If you do not engage at all she might give up to ask you...

So try to add what you can and get her back to her normal weight. Keep swimming. It is so hard to stand all that but it is the only way to fight that hydra. And try to do something nice for yourself. It is a marathon...
Come here and vent whenever you need. You are not alone. We are all there for you.
I send you a huge hug!
Tina72
teecee

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Reply with quote  #71 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tina72

I would not tell her that she looks "healthily nourished" because for an AN sufferer that means "fat".!
Tina72


Do you really think?? All I can advise is what has worked for us as it was advised by our therapist so we went with it. It meant that we weren’t lying by saying yes or no you do/don’t look bigger etc. She accepted it and it shut up the AN voice very quickly for us as it knew we were going to give a bland, non committal statement.
Foodsupport_AUS

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Reply with quote  #72 
Quote:
Originally Posted by teecee


Do you really think?? All I can advise is what has worked for us as it was advised by our therapist so we went with it. It meant that we weren’t lying by saying yes or no you do/don’t look bigger etc. She accepted it and it shut up the AN voice very quickly for us as it knew we were going to give a bland, non committal statement.



This was definitely a negative statement for my D too. Anyone suggesting she looked well was met with enormous distress. Acknowledging her anxiety can help, but for many there is nothing we can say to take it away and perhaps we should just say that.

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D diagnosed restrictive AN June 2010 age 13.5. Weight restored July 2012. Relapse and now clawing our way back. Treatment: multiple hospitalisations and individual and family therapy.
Torie

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Reply with quote  #73 

I think it is okay to say, "I see no difference" if that's what gets her past the moment.  Some sufferers have weird ideas that they literally blow up after eating a meal (like blowing up a balloon), and they can't tell what they look like.  If it gives her comfort, I think it's fine to reassure her that she looks the same as last time.

I agree with Tina and FoodSupport that I would avoid any descriptors that include the word "healthy" as ED usually twists that around to mean "fat."

You're doing great.  Keep swimming. xx

-Torie


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clem

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Reply with quote  #74 
Thanks for the replies and sound advice. I think in our personal circumstance, me using the word healthy does make D immediately think 'fat'. I have used this word before, as I thought it would be a good idea, noooope! Never again, not whilst the 100% irrational AN hydra is around. The only thing i can say is 'I see no difference' it sends her bonkers and I get accused of lying..... but we can only do what we think is best to keep the situation with a completely irrational mind at hand 'diffused'  and not lit up like the fatal night of Mt Vesuvius blowing Pompeii off the map.

D did this this morning, it was a positive eruption from nowhere. I was half asleep when she came marching in screaming that adding 150 calories to her diet was surely going to add more than 300 - 400 grams to her weight. I have no idea where she got this from, she said 'logical thinking'...... It was just an awful morning, I ended leaving the house for work, in a right mess. Still, she ate and continued with her day... I sneaky checked her internet history and phone later, could not find any research or conversation, no idea where this came from, but she clearly cannot handle 'mentally' that she is going to gain weight.

It's a thing we are currently stuck in and I'll keep on trying to get D out of it, but she needs to stop the body checking and complete focus of what is clearly body dysmorphia/disordered thinking out of her head first. This and the acute high level of anxiety that's feeding her, well, that and AN.

Despite this, D wants to know how much she will gain or what will happen if she increases to 1600cal! (This did make me smile, when she sent me a text, she is a fighter). Plus this means I can sneak more calories....


I am still swimming, reaching for the floor with my tiptoes sometimes and gulping water other times, but yep! Still swimming!

Hugs!

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D15, Restrictive AN. 5' 8" and 51kg. Diagnosed and hospitalised in Sept 2017 for 9 days. At home since in recovery/relapse/recovery. In the trenches and tackling FBT. Not a vegan anymore!
tina72

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Reply with quote  #75 
Hi clem,

that is so hard to stand and you need so much fantasy and ideas to handle all that situations, I can tell you, you are doing great!
It is great that she asked for 1600 calories, that could mean your real d behind that hydra wants you to add more. I have also no idea where she has got that numbers from but in this AN world you cannot work with logic.

Tell her that you do not know how much she will gain with XY and that is the truth. It is so different with every week, in some weeks we had 0,5 kg gain with 2500 calories and in other weeks we had no gain at all with 3000 calories. And tell her her metabolism will increase with recovery and that she will come to a good weight for her special body where she will feel fine and stop gaining.
The body dismorphia is something they do not get into their mind in that state. My d did not believe me that I am bigger than she is. She said to me that she is much more fat than I am at a time where I wore M and she XXS. So one day when she argued with me about being fatter than me I suddenly took of my pants size M and told her to put my pants on. She was surprised and did it. She could not even hold my pants with her hips. It slowly slipped down again. That was so funny that I started to laugh. I think this day changed something. Then she believed me "a bit".

Keep on swimming! You are doing great! All that will get better when her brain starts recovery. Try to add fat and glucose wherever possible.

Tina72
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