F.E.A.S.T's Around The Dinner Table forum

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lisaNJ_US
It's been about 6 weeks since we've been treating 10-yr old D.   I thought ED was getting weaker but it's back with a vengeance today.  Why? D has been gaining 1-2 lbs a week.  D still has at least 10 lbs to gain to get to her target weight.  I thought we were seeing the light at the end of the tunnel but now it's just so dark.  When will it get better??
Lisa NJ Mom to daughter dx AN (Nov. 2013) at age 10. WR April 2014. ~There is light at the end of the tunnel.~
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Foodsupport_AUS
Lisa, I know it really sucks when ED makes an appearance again after being quiet for a while. It is unfortunately par for the course. Commonly as kids get close to their weight target there is in fact an upshoot in ED behaviours. Often known as the last 10 lbs. 

You have done great work at home getting that weight on regularly. Fantastic effort. Keep it going. We are all here cheering you on. I know it seems dark when ED is out but that light is still there. 
D diagnosed restrictive AN June 2010 age 13.5. Weight restored July 2012. Relapse and now clawing our way back. Treatment: multiple hospitalisations and individual and family therapy.
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YogurtParfait_US
LisaNJ,

Keep up the good work. You know how to manage this. Let her words roll off you like water, or understand them for what they are: indications of your effectiveness in treating ED by feeding your daughter to wellness. ED fights back, but the words are just that--words. It helped me a lot to repeat to myself "this is normal this is normal this is normal" and to just keep feeding, keep calm, do my brick wall imitation (in terms of responding to ED's words), and see resurgences of ED behaviors as confirmations that yes, I was doing what I needed to be doing, and to keep doing that, till I could eliminate the last gasps of ED.

Food is medicine. ED does not like it. Not one bit. But your daughter is, I am sure, most grateful to be nourished.

This is a marathon, not a sprint, as the wonderful folks here often say ...

Sending lots of warm support! 
"Hope is a wonderful thing ... but hope by itself is not enough. Hope is the reason to take action, to make a plan and then to change the plan when it isn’t working - over and over and over again if necessary." Hannah Joseph (Let's Feast Friday Reflection, "Just Keep Going," Friday, March 3rd, 2015)
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lisaNJ_US
The sad part is that the words don't bother me. I just can't seem to weaken her to eat at all. She's not screaming. Not trying to get up and do jumping jacks or other exercise.  We've been at the table now for almost 2 hours and not one bite. I will sit here with her until she eats.
Lisa NJ Mom to daughter dx AN (Nov. 2013) at age 10. WR April 2014. ~There is light at the end of the tunnel.~
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YogurtParfait_US
I've been in that chair. Keep hanging in there. She will eat. Do you have somebody to tag-team with? Sending warm support.
"Hope is a wonderful thing ... but hope by itself is not enough. Hope is the reason to take action, to make a plan and then to change the plan when it isn’t working - over and over and over again if necessary." Hannah Joseph (Let's Feast Friday Reflection, "Just Keep Going," Friday, March 3rd, 2015)
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Amoma
Yes, Lisa the last 10 pounds are often the worst. Stratospheric anxiety like you have not seen before. It is called extinction burst in clinical terms.
We went through it.

Keep going

xoxox
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Foodsupport_AUS
Ah, the old stand off routine. I know it well. Great that you have your computer with you, we can sit with you too. Tag teaming is a good idea. When her next snack/meal is due, lay it beside the first until it goes in.

Do you have a plan B or C if food refusal continues? Consider a supplement/ anywhere you can take her where you may get more compliance? Emergency Department?
D diagnosed restrictive AN June 2010 age 13.5. Weight restored July 2012. Relapse and now clawing our way back. Treatment: multiple hospitalisations and individual and family therapy.
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lisaNJ_US
Plan B - call doctor in the morning and take her to the hospital (doc works in hospital).

I can stay up all night if need be. Work can wait. H is around if I need a break. 

Hmmm -- Plan C? I don't have one of those.  Any suggestions?
Lisa NJ Mom to daughter dx AN (Nov. 2013) at age 10. WR April 2014. ~There is light at the end of the tunnel.~
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Psycho_Mom
Hi,
If she's been eating everything you put in front of her for six weeks, there's a very good chance she will give in soon. Her ed is testing you. Her ed has been losing for a while, and now it's going to try one last desperate thing. (Or maybe several weeks or months worth of random last desperate different things...) Sounds like you are not going to give in, which is great. Do not give in!
IF you're just sitting there, you might look up IrishUp's thread on Extinction Burst. It is Extremely Helpful.
Good luck, you're doing great, keep us posted.

ps. Occasionally in a standoff I used to say the things that provoked my d most, and annoyed her so much that she just got mad and said to heck with it and ate the food. You probably know what annoys your d most. For mine, it was, "I am more stubborn than any eating disorder." Man, she hated that.

D diagnosed with EDNOS May 2013 at age 15, refed at home Aug 2013, since then symptoms gradually lessened and we retaught her how to feed and care for herself, including individual therapy, family skills DBT class, SSRI medication and relapse-prevention strategies. Anxiety was pre-existing and I believe she was sporadically restricting since about age 9. She now eats and behaves like any normal older teen, and is enjoying school, friends, sports, music and thinking about the future.
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MidWestMom
Our Plan B was to have her drink Boost or Ensure Drink to replace the calories she wasn't eating... when she was really struggling with a meal.  Fortunately, she always drank the Boost(s) within a half-hour, and we also didn't have to do it very often.  

This was the rule in the hospital when she couldn't finish her meal within the allotted time. Since she was used to that consequence from the hospital, it made sense to continue it when she came home. 

I can see where it could have backfired if D had become overly reliant on the supplement drink, versus 'real' food.  In our D's case, she didn't like them very much, but still managed to drink them when the ED was really strong.  She sometimes had to drink two of them to compensate for the missed calories.  I always bought the 'plus' types that had the most calories.  

This might be an option to consider ?
17 yr old d dx RAN in June 2013.   W/R in Jan. 2014; as of May 2014- independently and doing well.  Read more at Paula-Ponders.com
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mnmomUSA
I know the feeling.  It happened to us too.  Fortunately, it only lasted a short while, but I remember thinking "I just can't do this again."  But, of course, I could and I did.

Hang in there.  You ARE more stubborn than and stupid, frick frackin eating disorder.  It might get you momentarily flustered, but you will win in the end.

It does sound suspiciously like the extinction burst.
D, age 18, first diagnosed March 20, 2013, RAN, at age 13 Hospitalized 3 weeks for medical stability. FBT at home since.  UCSD Multi-family Intensive June 2015. We've arrived on the other side.  :-)  D at college and doing great!
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momon
Hi lisaNJ

Thinking of you and wishing you and your little sweetie d wellness soon.  You are doing a great job, keep at it!  You are stronger than ED and your daughter hidden inside the ED loves you and so appreciates your love and strength for her-- even if she can't show it now.  You are doing the most important job, keep going!  

My 10 yo was dx with restrictive Ed in march, we had a big battle but it's way way better now.  You WILL get through this, she will get better soon.  Sending you mother mojo!! And remember, she is safe now. You are just working with her to get through the ed.

Formerly posting as Basil, changed screen name as my child is getting more computer savvy!
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Red
Lisa, late to the table but really hoping it went OK.
The future is not set; there is no fate but that which we make for ourselves.

"Not my daughter, you bitch." Mrs. Weasley
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lisaNJ_US
To  all - thank you very much for your words of encouragement. H and I tag teamed. I slept from about 11pm-midnight. At midnight, I heard they were still awake downstairs. I got up, went downstairs and swapped places with H and told him to go to sleep. He was nice and told her she had to only eat 1/2 of the food on her plate and took the other 1/2 and put in a container. She only had to eat 10 tortellini and 1 meatball. I was able to get her to eat all the tortellini by threatening her with the clock. If she didn't eat a piece when the second hand was on the 12, I was putting all the food back in a container and calling the doctor in the morning. Doc told us to tell her that if she refused to eat, we'd have to look into a IP treatment in Denver or Portland. That scared her at least for last night. By 12:30, she finished eating, brushed her teeth and we were ready to go to bed.  She told me last night that when she tells me she hates me, she really loves me.

This morning as I was giving her a kiss goodbye to go to work (H is home with her today), she starts up with she's not eating b'fast. UGH!! I am ready to leave work any minute to take her to the doctor (while H takes care of the other 2 Ds).

Thanx again!!

Lisa
Lisa NJ Mom to daughter dx AN (Nov. 2013) at age 10. WR April 2014. ~There is light at the end of the tunnel.~
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OneToughMomma
Bless you, Lisa!  You and H did really well last night, and so did your D.  How wonderful that she tells you she really loves you.

Things are rough here, too, so I know what those moments of affection mean.

xo OTM
D in and out of EDNOS since age 8. dx RAN 2013. WR Aug '14. Graduated FBT June 2015 at 18 yrs old. [thumb]
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lisaNJ_US
I came home from work and spoke with the doc's office. I told D that it's time to get ready to go to the doctor. I started getting everything ready to go to the doc because then she gets admitted to the ER. That scared her and made her eat everything!! Of course it didn't help that I accidentally spilled milk on the kitchen table which went to the floor and made a huge mess. She's been very compliant now and doing her school work.

Lisa NJ Mom to daughter dx AN (Nov. 2013) at age 10. WR April 2014. ~There is light at the end of the tunnel.~
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YogurtParfait_US
"She told me last night that when she tells me she hates me, she really loves me."

Yes. It is ED who hates you and hates her, too.

Great use of hospital back-up. I remember reading in Carrie Arnold's book a time when she wouldn't eat and the therapist told her it didn't matter where she ate, at home or at the hospital, but that eating was not optional.

Wonderful that your daughter is strong enough to make the choice to eat at home. Keep up the excellent support that makes it possible for her to make those brave choices.
"Hope is a wonderful thing ... but hope by itself is not enough. Hope is the reason to take action, to make a plan and then to change the plan when it isn’t working - over and over and over again if necessary." Hannah Joseph (Let's Feast Friday Reflection, "Just Keep Going," Friday, March 3rd, 2015)
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SamHeinous
The threat of a treatment center, or the return to one often works. Sometimes it doesn't though. Before we made it to ERC, my d wanted to go. After we came home from a three month stint, she said she's never going back, lol.

You are handling this exactly as you should. No nonsense. None. Food goes in, either at home, or in the hospital. My D, who was 10 when we were going thru this could not handle any choices. So I didn't give any. We told ED it was our way, or the highway- straight to Denver, lol
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KyrasMom_US
Wow -- you are doing so great -- I really admire your consistency and unwillingness to back down. That's the hardest part, I think. I also love that you and your H are a team - that's been the best part of this whole thing -- seeing how my H and I can work together and support each other. 

Anyway, my go-to "threat" is that if she doesn't eat, we can't let her do ANYTHING with friends, at school, etc. It's LSUYE (Life Stops Until You Eat), and it works every time. My D is 15, though, so she might be more inclined to want to get away from home and being only with us. Plus, she hasn't fully "come out" to her friends about her ED, so she would hate to appear different by not attending birthdays, etc. 

I'll be thinking of you -- there are so many ups and downs and it's a shock to hit a low moment when you've had so many good for a bit. 
Mom of 16-y-o D diagnosed w/ ED-NOS (RAN, compulsive exercise) in May 2013. Hospitalized for 2 wks then IOP at UCSD through July. Now in FBT w/ team of therapist, pediatrician and psychiatrist (for meds.). She is WR & considered to be in recovery, though we are diligently watching her and working on relapse prevention on a weekly basis with her T. We can finally see true recovery as a real possibility [biggrin]!
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trusttheprocessUSA
You and your husband make a great team well done. Ed cannot penetrate a united team. The plans you have in place only strengthen the boundaries around ED. 

My son's ED needed extremely tight boundaries - sounds like the plan you have in place will work and hopefully will allow you to get those 10 lbs on her. Remember your D must continue to grow and gain so the weight restoration weight is just a moment in time. I wouldn't focus too much on that target because she will need to gain over time as she grow into an adult. 
As she continues to eat her brain will heal and she will improve - I walked that walk so I can talk that talk - you have every reason to be hopeful. 

Keep going - enough food over time = healing 
Son diagnosed @ 12.5 yrs old with Severe RAN 2/11. Co-morbids - anxiety, Active restriction for 3 months. He stopped eating completely 2x. He needed immediate, aggressive treatment from a provider who specialized in eating disorders, adolescents and males. We got that at Kartini Clinic. WR since 5/11. 2017 getting ready to graduate slipping lost 8lbs. Fighting our way back.
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momon
Wonderful job by your family! You are a few steps closer to well! And she is safe.  

How lovely she was able to tell you so soon that the I hate you's are meaningless.
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waytogo
For once I had a good threat ready today, when there were too many blueberries in the bowl and so were ditched onto the floor.... 'okay, no New Year's Eve party tonight unless you eat a bowl of blueberries.' They were gobbled up!!!

Wish I had more leverage other days, that was so easy!
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