F.E.A.S.T's Around The Dinner Table forum

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Hope2019
Hi, All,

  I would like to update our status after few weeks, this forum has been a lifesaver for me, thanks for tips for sneaking fat,  I have been putting cream and oil everywhere, even the ensure bottles... my s is gaining 1lb/per week, so he has gained 5 lbs in last 4 weeks, his BMI is about 22.7 now, so we have some buffer for him to miss a meal, I would like to move on next plan end of this month:  close out his ensure plus so he could eat whatever I give him.
thanks Tina, scraremum and all of your encouragement, I can not do it without all of your help!

   I have been asking around how to get NG for my son as a tool to fight ED during the transition, but doc only told me I could only take him to ER when he does not eat anything in 24hrs, I could image the picture now:  I am going to give him the plate, he refuses, I will give him a homemade milk shake which he is very scared now, I assume he will not drink it either, then I wait couple of hrs offering him next meal plus the shake, he will refuse again, what if he eats a little bit during the day and I can not get him to ER for the NG? then the ED wins, I know ED fears NG,  how can I request NG for my son when he refuses one meal couple of hrs later?  I red so many families used NG as a tool and enable to have their kids eat whatever they offered, but I just could not find a solution, I only need it as part of the plan, my son may give in and eat before he sees the NG, but I really need it in place so I could fight confidently.

  I would appreciate all your tips and I would do anything to treat my son, he still has strong ED even his weight has been restored for couple of months, I need to help him recover soon by removing his safe supplement (ensure plus).
12 years son, diagnosed AN 03/18, ip one week, residential 5 weeks, IOP 7 weeks, doing FBT since 11/18.
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Foodsupport_AUS
You have done a great job getting him to continue to gain weight. I think very few parents here have had access to NG feeding to make up for a single missed meal. This was something that was used in hospital for my D but never available as an outpatient (we are not in the US).

The goal of course is to have him moving to eating all meals without resorting to a supplement. As has been suggested before requiring larger supplements than the meal is one logical way forward, perhaps another way could be to require quiet time, withdrawal of privileges if he needs a supplement rather than normal activities or privileges after a meal. 
D diagnosed restrictive AN June 2010 age 13.5. Weight restored July 2012. Relapse and now clawing our way back. Treatment: multiple hospitalisations and individual and family therapy.
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tina72
"thanks Tina, scraremum and all of your encouragement, I can not do it without all of your help!"
You do not need to do it alone, we are all here to help you.

Hope, I think you should not think too much about the NG tube at all. You think you need that to force him to eat but most of the parents here got their kids to eat without the tube in back and I am sure you can do that, too.
What you need to work on before you start is your own attitude: at the moment you expect that he will not eat and that you will need that tube to force him and he will feel that you expect that he does not eat and then he will not eat as a selffulfilling prophecy.
What you need to do is change your attitude: you must expect that he will eat and fake that if needed. When he sees that you are sure you will get him to eat no matter how long it takes and no matter what you need to do at that table he will feel that he cannot win that war and he will eat.
Do you understand what I mean?
Keep feeding. There is light at the end of the tunnel.
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scaredmom
You have done a great job with the weight gain. 
I think you would be very hard pressed to find any ER medical team to use NG to "threaten" your son. I think this will be your challenge. 
I have a couple of thoughts in how to get rid of the ensure:
1) Just get rid of them altogether and prepare for the resistance for awhile. It may take a few days or a week. It has to be done;( this is the option I prefer, to be honest) It has to be done. 
2) you introduce a milkshake/smoothies half a cup a at time and after he has that he can have the "half" of the ensure. Then you increase the milkshake volume and decrease the ensure over a few days. (I would suggest it be a quick withdrawal, a few days, rather than weeks).  Weaning off of the ensure. 
3) Make more ensures ie three of them to make up anything he does not eat. That would be upsetting to ED and may get him to eat the "smaller" amount of food.

If there is any resistance to YOUR Plan, then take away the privileges. School, friends, playing time etc.. Tell him that before it happens as that is your expectation. Then he knows the plan and you do too and it just "happens". 


Either way, I think you will have a lot of resistance. Knowing that for yourself, may be important in changing how you deal with ED. 
I think now it is up to you and you alone, to make the plan and stick to it no matter what son says or does. I know it is hard and YOU are the only one that can do this. It will be a fight and hard and upsetting, but there is no easy way to treat this very serious illness. I have confidence in you. You can do it. You just have to start.
XXX
Food+more food+time+love+good professional help+ATDT+no exercise+ state not just weight+/- the "right" medicine= healing---> recovery(--->life without ED)
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Hope2019
Thanks Food support and Tina, 
   I agree what you said ,thanks for pointing out my attitude needed to chang, I told my h we will both be calm and fake confidence during the time. I just keep thinking what if he still does not eat in a day when I give him large supplement? So scared to think of it now.
  I was planning to go UCSD 5 days program begging of summer break, I can not wait till that time to change his behavior: he negotiates every meal by removing few bites food, otherwise he will take the supplements ( I added cream, it is lager than the Meal), some challenging  food he ate 2 months ago he does not eat anymore, like 15 dumplings, muffins.... his food is becoming narrower since we offer him the ensure without any consequences, wondering when his brain start to heal? His weight was 94 lb in oct, maintain same till Jan, now it is 105 lb, his height stayed almost the same in last year after he got AN, 4’8”.
 I am doubting about the good weight for him to heal, I read about focusing on state not weight, I know lots of kids starting better at BMI 22, I will need to continue push the weight.
  Please share your thoughts, i am so grateful to many of you loving support, just holding my hands when I am scared to move my next step.
12 years son, diagnosed AN 03/18, ip one week, residential 5 weeks, IOP 7 weeks, doing FBT since 11/18.
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Hope2019
Thanks Scared-mum, you typed faster than me, just saw yours after I posted mine.
 Yes, I would take option 2, or just remove the ensure and give him homemade milkshake in the beging, he has not have it after the ED.
  Thanks for your encouragement, I choose that time because it is the one week 7th science camp, his twin brother will be gone for a week, then next week is spring break, so I have 2 weeks of good time to work on this, i told my h to also take off 1 -2 weeks to prepare for it...
12 years son, diagnosed AN 03/18, ip one week, residential 5 weeks, IOP 7 weeks, doing FBT since 11/18.
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tina72
If you think about trying option 2 I would give it a try for about 3 days to a week and if it is too much trouble about it I would go with option 1 (I agree with scaredmom that this is in my eyes the better one) and do a hard cut. In my experience the hard cut was more frightened for me than for her and she accepted it better than I thought looking back.
Keep feeding. There is light at the end of the tunnel.
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Hope2019
Thanks Tina and scaredmum, appreciate you shared your great experience, option 1 seems simpler and more frightened, option 2 might causes new issues like the quantity of shake and ensure, really makes sense.

i am trying to work with our FBT and eating disorder pediation about the plan, hope I could get their support by telling my son about the consequences of NG if he misses meals, I doubt they are able to say it to my s. I will keep us updated....
12 years son, diagnosed AN 03/18, ip one week, residential 5 weeks, IOP 7 weeks, doing FBT since 11/18.
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Mamaroo
Another way of motivating yourself to be tougher is to imagine how it would be like if your s doesn't take ensures anymore, nor enquire about calories in food. Nice feeling, hey? So, to get to that point, you need to be able to handle your son's distress and it is going to be hard for you. But when you are through it, you can put this all behind you and future you is going to thank present you.
D became obsessed with exercise at age 9 and started eating 'healthy' at age 9.5. Restricting couple of months later. IP for 2 weeks at age 10. Slowly refed for months on Ensures alone, followed by swap over with food at a snails pace. WR after a year at age 11 in March 2017. View my recipes on my YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKLW6A6sDO3ZDq8npNm8_ww
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tina72
Hope2019 wrote:

i am trying to work with our FBT and eating disorder pediation about the plan, hope I could get their support by telling my son about the consequences of NG if he misses meals, I doubt they are able to say it to my s. I will keep us updated....


I would think about that, I think it does not make sense to threaten him with the NG tube at all if you cannot make sure it will be set as consequence. The FBT team should only threaten him with that if they can set the tube if needed.

I would go with option 1 and fake that you expect him to eat the meal and say ensure plus was out. You can have some bottles in back and if he really refuses to eat all day you can say you just found one bottle and the damage will not be that bad.
Or you can say you asked the company what is in there and they told you and you made the same at home (milkshake).
Keep feeding. There is light at the end of the tunnel.
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scaredmom
Hope2019,
I know the NG threat is comforting for YOU. I know it is so frightening to challenge ED. I know you are scared.
I also think you need to be prepared that NG will not be offered for your son, unless he is medically unstable. Otherwise I think this would have  been brought up by your team over the last year you have been seeing them.

I have found in life that the things that seem impossible to do are usually the ones we need to do. It is our growth that will ultimately help our children. Until you challenge yourself you cannot challenge ED.

It is always harder and scarier before we do something and then we do it and wonder why we were so worried before. 
I do not think the NG can be an option to make it easier for you. It is hard, it will be hard but not as hard as you may fear.

Sending you a hug,
XXX
Food+more food+time+love+good professional help+ATDT+no exercise+ state not just weight+/- the "right" medicine= healing---> recovery(--->life without ED)
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tina72
I just want to add that looking back there were about a handfull times when I thought "if I do this or that or introduce this she will stop eating totally". I really thought she would. But I knew to go through the tunnel I must keep going and I tried it and guess what: she did not stop to eat totally. My fear was bigger than the problem actually was. When I faked that I have no fear to introduce x or y she was able to eat it.
Keep feeding. There is light at the end of the tunnel.
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Hope2019
Tina and scaremum, your warm loving encouragement made me cry...
i know I am so scared, deep in my heart if I fail and let my s muss meals during removing ensure... 
you guys have been keep reminding me to be strong... I can not plan it without you... will keep you updated...
12 years son, diagnosed AN 03/18, ip one week, residential 5 weeks, IOP 7 weeks, doing FBT since 11/18.
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debra18
You can do it . We are cheering for you!
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Hope2019

Thanks, debra, I have been reading your posts, amazing job you did for your d!  
everyday whenever I have time, I just come here and read posts from all warrior parents, I told myself to be stronger, I can do it, I have to do it, to get my s back so he could have a happy life...

It is about one year since the diagnose, life never been this hard, I know we are in the right direction, my s' weight up from 66lb to 105 lb now since last June, he is happy and eats everything now, the issue is he keeps counting cals for meals and snacks, or take supplement, he likes "smaller" food, this has been our biggest issue since last FBT last Nov. 

My h does not have much patiences even though he knows the treatment plan, he yells and lost cool lots of times...this does not help, but he supports all my plan and do whatever I told him.

I am so grateful I found this forum when I red Eva's book few months ago...

12 years son, diagnosed AN 03/18, ip one week, residential 5 weeks, IOP 7 weeks, doing FBT since 11/18.
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tina72
You really can do that, Hope. We are no super heroe mums and we have been in your shoes a lot of times. It helped me to see that ED is a bad bully and I need to save my d from that bully. He makes your s count those calories and your son does not want to do that. YOU can help him to stop it and you must do that because nobody else will help him to do that.

We are here, you do not need to stand that alone. I am really sure you can do that. Just make a plan and start it. Get a lot of distraction for this day and maybe some new games or presents for him so he is occupied and has not too much time to think about it. Do not announce it before, just say at one meal "oh, there is no ensure any more, we are off - you need to eat that now". Just DO it. You can do that, I am sure.
Keep feeding. There is light at the end of the tunnel.
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Hope2019
Hi, tina,
 
 Thanks for reminding me details plan, especially no heads up to my s about the plan.

I plan to use TV or Video game for incentives if he eats, as soon as he eats he could use them.
 He likes readying, if we let him reading during the fighting ensure time, what if he reads for hours and still does not want to eat and not get bored while reading? could help ED relaxing and keep the fight?  or I should limit his reading time taking his books so him gets bored within 1 hr? it might make him to think about the eating the food when he is bored?

12 years son, diagnosed AN 03/18, ip one week, residential 5 weeks, IOP 7 weeks, doing FBT since 11/18.
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debra18
My daughter also likes reading
 She reads while eating and after eating. It's the only way she was able to eat . Why don't you just give it a try without the ensure and see what happens ? Than we can brainstorm ideas.
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Mamaroo
Hope2019 wrote:
He likes readying, if we let him reading during the fighting ensure time, what if he reads for hours and still does not want to eat and not get bored while reading? could help ED relaxing and keep the fight?  or I should limit his reading time taking his books so him gets bored within 1 hr? it might make him to think about the eating the food when he is bored?

If he doesn't start to eat and continuously taking bites, I would remind him to keep on eating, otherwise you might need to take away the book. Just make sure he is making meaningful progress. My d and I used to play candy crush. She would eat and direct my moves. It was a great distraction, she would get more upset if I made the wrong move than with the food in front of her. 
D became obsessed with exercise at age 9 and started eating 'healthy' at age 9.5. Restricting couple of months later. IP for 2 weeks at age 10. Slowly refed for months on Ensures alone, followed by swap over with food at a snails pace. WR after a year at age 11 in March 2017. View my recipes on my YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKLW6A6sDO3ZDq8npNm8_ww
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Hope2019
Thanks debra and Mamroo for the great tips.
based on my s, I think I need to take his books if he does not start eating, for him if starts eating, he always finishes, or does not start.  
I am getting some confidence now, cause I have all of you... I am not alone...oh, gosh, I am crying again...  sad, angry and touched by the love from all of you...
12 years son, diagnosed AN 03/18, ip one week, residential 5 weeks, IOP 7 weeks, doing FBT since 11/18.
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tina72
Some here did the "life stops until you eat" approach. Took away all distraction if they refused to eat and gave it back immediately when they ate.

"I plan to use TV or Video game for incentives if he eats, as soon as he eats he could use them.
 He likes readying, if we let him reading during the fighting ensure time, what if he reads for hours and still does not want to eat and not get bored while reading? could help ED relaxing and keep the fight?  or I should limit his reading time taking his books so him gets bored within 1 hr? it might make him to think about the eating the food when he is bored?
"

I think this is really a great plan and I am very sure it will work if you go through it!
No eating, no nothing. No TV, no books, no nothing. If he is that sick that he refuses to eat he can only ly on his bed and stare at the ceiling. Very boring 🙂. Offer him distraction and say you must take it away when he starts to refuse. We ate a lot in front of TV. Series about 20-30 minutes are the best because they tend to finish within that episode...
Keep feeding. There is light at the end of the tunnel.
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scaredmom
Hi Hope2019, 
How is it going? Wishing you strength.
All the best,
XXX
Food+more food+time+love+good professional help+ATDT+no exercise+ state not just weight+/- the "right" medicine= healing---> recovery(--->life without ED)
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Hope2019
Scaredmum, thanks for thinking about me,I have not started yet, planning to start end of this month, there are 2 weeks we could do, no school for s, no work for me and h.
tina: thx for reminding me that approach, I think that is the one I am going to do for s.
i have been reading the forum the whole day, so many parents succeeded by letting their sick kids eat what they put in front of them, I just admired their smart, brave parents, I wish someday I could do that ....
12 years son, diagnosed AN 03/18, ip one week, residential 5 weeks, IOP 7 weeks, doing FBT since 11/18.
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tina72
I am really sure you can do that, Hope, as I know a lot of parents who did that and they are just normal parents like you and me and no superheroes. 🙂
2 weeks off is a great time to start that. Plan a lot of distractions and just start. We are here to help you if you struggle a bit at the start.
Keep feeding. There is light at the end of the tunnel.
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deenl
Hope2019 wrote:
so many parents succeeded by letting their sick kids eat what they put in front of them, I just admired their smart, brave parents, I wish someday I could do that ....


Hi Hope2019,

We all LEARNED to do this. I think it is safe to say that very many of the kids who have restricting eating disorders have been diligent, hard-working, honest and easy-to-parent kids. Many of us have had open, relaxed and collaborative parenting styles as suited our kids. It is very difficult but having a very ill child who resists our attempts to help REQUIRES us to change. It didn't happen overnight for any of us, I don't think.

In my case, it happened gradually and with lots of trial and error. I used mantras to help me be strong. Things like "You have to be cruel to be kind" and  "Short term pain for long term gain". Teenagers are not know for the strength of their long term decision making in the best of circumstances, and  these are far from the best of circumstance. So I had to keep my perspective on the long game. I found it helpful to imagine how he would be in a few years time, healthy and happy. This was and still is my goal. I envision it, almost feel it and know what I need to do to get him there.

You are in the process of changing your style to suit the situation. Your determination to help your son is the driver of that change. Just accept that it will take time and courage. I have no doubt that you will do it. You have taken many strong steps already. Keep going.

Wishing you continued strength and courage,

D
2015 12yo son restricting but no body image issues, no fat phobia; lost weight IP! Oct 2015 home, stable but no progress. Medical hosp to kick start recovery Feb 2016. Slowly and cautiously gaining weight at home and seeing signs of our real kid.

May 2017 Hovering around WR. Mood great, mostly. Building up hour by hour at school after 18 months at home. Summer 2017 Happy, first trip away in years, food variety, begin socialising. Sept 2017, back to school FT first time in 2 years. [thumb] 2018 growing so fast hard to keep pace with weight
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  • We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence Recovery, then, is not an act but a habit. Aristotle.
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