F.E.A.S.T's Around The Dinner Table forum

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linefine
Our D is very (and I mean VERY) selective eater, so finding enough variety for her pre ED was difficult enough!  Now I'm struggling to find enough high calories things to give her some variety.  She goes off things quite quickly if she has them too quickly.  I can and do put oil and cream and ice cream and cheese and butter and bacon into as much as I can, but she's ending up with dairy based EVERYTHING which she's getting fed up with.  To give you an idea of how hard this can be, here's a short list of high calorie things she will not eat....

Any fish, except tinned tuna, as long as it's well drained 
Lamb (except mince/ground)
Peanut butter
Mayonnaise
Any sauce or dressing except ketchup and gravy
Custard
Many yoghurts/fromage frais/petit filou (will eat small selection of yoghurts but gets fed up of them quickly)
Avocado
Any granola
Many ice creams (will eat chocolate but gets sick of it after a few days)

Can't think of others off the top of my head, but there are many....

For college lunch she won't take anything that looks "babyish" (chocolate finger biscuits eg) or most things which are home made.  She usually ends up taking crisps, an apple, and various biscuit type things, maybe a ham & cheese sandwich.  Although shakes are a good idea, she goes off them after a few days.  I think she needs some more protein during the day (breakfast is usually carb-rich - cereal or pancakes or toast) but I am at a loss.  It's likely suggestions you good people make will be full of foods she won't eat, but you never know, so please help me out!

She's eating up like a lamb at the moment, so I really want to keep going with the good days, and not have a blow out because I've given her macaroni cheese, or some other cream-laden pasta dish AGAIN.....
Heather

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonour others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always PROTECTS, always TRUSTS, always HOPES, always PERSEVERES. Love never fails.
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schnook
Have you seen this thread? http://www.aroundthedinnertable.org/post?id=696425
Working hard at meal support and WR for an anxious and food avoidant 6yo
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Torie
Fried chicken, french fries, fruit pies, donuts, sausage, muffins, pizza, meatballs, egg rolls, mashed potatoes, scrambled eggs loaded with butter

Good luck.

xx

-Torie
"We are angels of hope, of healing, and of light. Darkness flees from us." -YP 
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Psycho_Mom
Hummus and anything made from coconut milk--like Thai curries. Other nut butters. 
See the High Cal thread, and the FEAST cookbook.

Also, all those things that she "won't" eat need to be challenged. This can be done gradually, with a taste of something once a day. (Or some other arrangement, whatever works. For our d, I gave her a choice of two items every day, she chose one. And yes, there was a lot of fussing and screaming. It got easier over time.) If your d is rational enough to listen to you for one minute, you can explain that a wide and varied diet is associated with MUCH higher recovery rates from this illness. This is true; studies are listed on this site. 

best wishes,
D diagnosed with EDNOS May 2013 at age 15, refed at home Aug 2013, since then symptoms gradually lessened and we retaught her how to feed and care for herself, including individual therapy, family skills DBT class, SSRI medication and relapse-prevention strategies. Anxiety was pre-existing and I believe she was sporadically restricting since about age 9. She now eats and behaves like any normal older teen, and is enjoying school, friends, sports, music and thinking about the future.
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linefine
Psycho_Mom wrote:
Hummus and anything made from coconut milk--like Thai curries. Other nut butters. 
See the High Cal thread, and the FEAST cookbook.

Also, all those things that she "won't" eat need to be challenged. This can be done gradually, with a taste of something once a day. (Or some other arrangement, whatever works.


Thanks, Psych Mom.  Remember she has SED/ARFID, so challenging unacceptable foods is extremely difficult and often impossible.  No amount of cajoling/threatening/encouraging/requiring makes the slightest difference to someone with SED (I have it, and probably the only thing that would make me eat a prawn or a grapefruit would be literally threatening to shoot me or my husband or my children...)  

We are challenging refusal of foods previously accepted, but foods she "can't" eat, are just that - she can't.  It's not easy for others to understand if they don't have it, and SED babies/children (without ED) will go hungry rather than eat a disliked food!

Unfortunately, nuts, nut butters, hummus and any curry are also out. 

I did look through the High Cal thread, and the FEAST cookbook, and got some ideas, but lots of it is out too.

Torie wrote:
Fried chicken, french fries, fruit pies, donuts, sausage, muffins, pizza, meatballs, egg rolls, mashed potatoes, scrambled eggs loaded with butter


Thanks Torie,
She won't eat scrambled eggs (or any other egg apart from hard boiled in mac cheese), or sausages, or fruit pies, or egg rolls, and only certain donuts...  I'm going to try muffins this week, but she's quite selective about those too!

Minced meat recipes are ok (shepherds pie, lasagne, bolognaise etc)  Anyone got any other minced meat recipes which aren't curry or chilli?

I'm very grateful for all suggestion, by the way, and know this is difficult (have lived with it all my own life, and have much sympathy with my poor mother when I was young!) 


Heather

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonour others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always PROTECTS, always TRUSTS, always HOPES, always PERSEVERES. Love never fails.
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Honey_Badger
linefine, perhaps you could make a list of foods she currently WILL eat?   Along with those she used to eat?   That would give people an idea to help you make them more high caloric, maybe?
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Honey_Badger
Ah, I see you mentioned minced meat (ground beef to us in the US).   I remember reading an expert's advice for selective eaters that often they will eat ground beef, turkey etc. if the meat is ground very very finely -- all one consistency, no lumps seems to be key.

ground beef in tacos or tortillas with extra oil on the taco shells

ground sausage in Cajun "dirty rice"?     (Omit any ingredients she doesn't like):

http://www.simplyrecipes.com/recipes/dirty_rice

Goulash?

http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/paula-deen/bobbys-goulash-recipe.html





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Honey_Badger
And here's another ground meat recipe -- Stuffed Grape leaves

http://www.marthastewart.com/318007/dolmades-stuffed-grape-leaves
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linefine
Good idea....

Chicken, breast only, or in pie
Turkey, breast or store-bought sliced, or in pie
Pork, roasted only
Beef roasted, casseroled, pie
Mild cheddar cheese in sandwiches (certain type only)
Medium cheddar in cheese sauce
Cheese sauce! (and therefore mac cheese)
Pasta, rice, selected Chinese food 
Lasagne, bolognaise, shepherds pie
Pancakes (English - also called crepes) with lemon juice & sugar only, occasionally Nutella, strawberry jam
White sliced bread
Butter
Yoghurt, full fat natural with fruit, selected flavoured yoghurt (certain brands only)
Chocolate & vanilla ice cream (certain brands only)
Apples, pears, tinned peaches, grapes, cherries, strawberries, melon, all raw (no cooked fruit at all)
Salad leaves in small quantities but without dressing or mayonnaise
Breakfast cereals, selected only (Coco Pops, Rice Krispies, Krave, Crunchy Bran) but goes off them if had too often
Bagels, selected brand/flavour only
Fish fingers, chicken nuggets
Potato waffles, oven chips (selected brand only)
Peas, carrots, broccoli, baby corn, corn on the cob
Potatoes, mashed, roast, baked
Suet dumplings with gravy, Yorkshire puddings
Quiche, plain only, pizza, (Margherita with ham only)
Chocolate cake, chocolate biscuits, cookies
Whole milk & shakes, hot chocolate, Innocent fruit smoothies - but goes off them quickly
Orange juice, apple juice
Bacon, sliced ham (every millimetre of fat cut off....)
Certain selected brands & flavours of crisps, but goes off them quickly if had too often
Omelette with cheese & ham, but NOT oil! (ok with cream)

NO soups at all, NO green cooked leaves (cabbage etc) NO beans except fine green.

She hasn't wholly stopped eating any previously acceptable foods, but has started to find some things "slimy" - some chicken or pork eg.  Also there can be trouble with certain combinations (mashed potatoes must have gravy eg)

It looks like quite a long list, but it's quite hard to get variety, actually!  And snacks/lunches are really hard as she so quickly goes off things. (That's an SED thing too - I'm the same....)

Thanks in advance for any suggestions, and I'm not expecting miracles!

Heather

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonour others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always PROTECTS, always TRUSTS, always HOPES, always PERSEVERES. Love never fails.
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mnmomUSA
Just one quick hint.  I see she will eat pancakes.  Make them with heavy whipping cream or half and half instead of milk.  You can really up the calories this way.  It does work with "double cream" (which I believe is what Brits call heavy whipping cream), although you may need more than the called for amount to get the right consistency. I generally add the amount called for (say 1 cup), then thin with whole milk until the batter is right.  This really can add to the calories of a single pancake without her being any the wiser.
D, age 18, first diagnosed March 20, 2013, RAN, at age 13 Hospitalized 3 weeks for medical stability. FBT at home since.  UCSD Multi-family Intensive June 2015. We've arrived on the other side.  :-)  D at college and doing great!
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Boysmum
I just wanted to express my sympathy because my son is also very fussy, predating his anorexia by many years. It's very frustrating isn't it, and my other children get very bored by the limited dinner menu!!
13 yr old son diagnosed April 2015 with Anorexia.
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linefine
mnmomUSA wrote:
Just one quick hint.  I see she will eat pancakes.  Make them with heavy whipping cream or half and half instead of milk.  You can really up the calories this way.  It does work with "double cream" (which I believe is what Brits call heavy whipping cream), although you may need more than the called for amount to get the right consistency. I generally add the amount called for (say 1 cup), then thin with whole milk until the batter is right.  This really can add to the calories of a single pancake without her being any the wiser.


Good idea, thank you!  (It's called double cream over here!)

Boysmum wrote:
I just wanted to express my sympathy because my son is also very fussy, predating his anorexia by many years. It's very frustrating isn't it, and my other children get very bored by the limited dinner menu!!


Thank you, Boysmum!  We've always called it "selective" eating because it sounds better! Being a selective eater myself, I can tell you it's very boring for the sufferer too.....  Oh how I wish we could eat fish and curry and cooked fruit and dark chocolate!
Heather

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonour others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always PROTECTS, always TRUSTS, always HOPES, always PERSEVERES. Love never fails.
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Torie
You are most likely already doing this, but adding rapeseed oil to food and beverages can help a lot. Most kids don't notice any change if you stir it in thoroughly. Also, buttering both sides of the bread for grilled cheese helps. Some here are able to find much higher calorie versions of bread, etc. - I realize your d probably won't eat new varieties you find, but probably worth a try to examine calorie count for various items in a few different stores because not all stores carry the particular brands that are best for our kids.

xx

-Torie
"We are angels of hope, of healing, and of light. Darkness flees from us." -YP 
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K63
Hi line fine, would she eat white wraps or whole meal, pittas, filled with filling of choice with mayonnaise. What about couscous add oil to it or quinoa, sweet potatoes . If she eats scones add double cream to receipe instead of milk. If making chocolate sauce for receipe add double cream or HWC to it .
Daughter started restricting in February 2014, tried re feeding at home hospital admission 4 1/2 months weight restored started restricting post discharge, back on meal plan full supervision weight restored april 2016. Starting to hand back responsibility for meals it's scary. 
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Torie
Oops, no, meant to say HWC = double cream, not HWC = rapeseed oil

-Torie
"We are angels of hope, of healing, and of light. Darkness flees from us." -YP 
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K63
Sorry thought it was heavy whipping cream or we call it double cream that's what I meant to add to chocolate sauce or scones
Daughter started restricting in February 2014, tried re feeding at home hospital admission 4 1/2 months weight restored started restricting post discharge, back on meal plan full supervision weight restored april 2016. Starting to hand back responsibility for meals it's scary. 
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Torie
K63 wrote:
Sorry thought it was heavy whipping cream or we call it double cream that's what I meant to add to chocolate sauce or scones


Oh silly me. Of course you are correct. My apologies for the confusion

-Torie
"We are angels of hope, of healing, and of light. Darkness flees from us." -YP 
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rosalind50
Home made beef or chicken meatballs have been a good one for me ? X
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Foodsupport_AUS
Butter was my best friend. One tspn of butter is 34 calories, and can be added to just about anything cooked. One serve of rice will soak up about a four teaspoons with ease. Add it to all vegetables. My D does not have SED but her list of foods that she would eat when ill was substantially shorter. Despite that it was possible to get the weight on and then she gradually expanded back to normal. When ill she also could not eat anything that was not on her safe list, and would rather not eat at all for days and be hospitalised. 
D diagnosed restrictive AN June 2010 age 13. Mostly recovered 10 years later.  Treatment: multiple hospitalisations and individual and family therapy.
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Honey_Badger
Hi linefine!   That's a pretty good list.  And, it seems familiar.   A year ago, my son had a like that. On paper, he didn't seem like he was such a severe selective eater. But, for many items on the list, he would truly eat only one particular brand or flavor, and often it was inconvenient or difficult to find.  

For example, he'd eat black bean soup but only ONE type, from restaurant XYZ, located 30 minutes away, and they only served it on Fridays, and it didn't freeze well, and nothing I made to try to replicate it would do.   So.. I get it!

OK, looking at your list -- it strikes me that your daughter "going off something" quickly would be a good place to focus on.   She eats a decent variety of foods but you can't count on it, right?   So one thing to try if you haven't already is not letting her go on food jags. I realize she is an adult so this might be harder than it was for me with a child.   But can you encourage her to rotate her foods?   If she eats a milk shake one day and really likes it, have her try a pancake the next and never have the same food twice in a row?   Or, you say she'll eat 4 different types of cereal -- so have her rotate those so she doesn't tire of any one?  

Here in the US kid cereal comes in small individual serving boxes.   Very wasteful, but I would buy a large carton of my son's cereals in small boxes, all cereals he usually liked, but then just bring out four different ones so he was forced to eat one one day and then a different one the next -- just to prevent repetition.  

There's also a theory I read about having to do with appetite and different flavors. It said that we have separate appetites for each flavor -- you can get full on one flavor but still have room for another (that's why we can eat a full dinner but still have room for dessert).   A good suggestion to stimulate appetite (and I presume to not get tired of certain foods) is to try to include foods with all 5 flavors in every meal.   Sweet, salty, sour, bitter and umami.   Bitter flavor foods would include leafy greens and sprouts, coffee, tea, olives, dark chocolate.  Umami would include smoked or cured meats, cheese, soy sauce, meats, fish, mushrooms etc.  Even just a sip or two was fine just to have that flavor

So for my son, for breakfast I'd make him cereal (sweet), a cup of OJ (sour), and a slice of bagel with cream cheese (umami and salty) and a few capers (bitter).  For lunch, macaroni and cheese (umami and salty), a dill pickle (sour), chocolate milk (sweet) and a few olives (bitter).  I chose the foods for each flavor from his list of foods he already liked so this was just a way of trying to mix things up and avoid a food rut or getting tired of certain foods.

Next -- texture -- it is a good idea to vary texture as well.   "Slimy" is generally considered the most disgusting texture by humans as foods that have gone rotten will feel slimy.   If your daughter is reacting to the oil/cream in foods as "slimy" that seems to be triggering her disgust response, which people with selective eating seem to have a heightened amount of!  I wonder if that isn't a reaction to her having "filled up" on that type of food for a while  (creamy texture), and it might  be a good idea to switch to more chewy or crunchy textures.   Selective eaters who have sensory issues often prefer their foods to be all one texture -- creamy throughout, crunchy throughout, or chewy throughout.   They don't like foods that change texture -- like say a chewy chocolate with a hard nut inside, or chewy bacon with crispy parts (or the slimy parts of the fat).   So paying attention to varying the texture of food usually means finding foods on her list that are smooth throughout (cream soups, smoothies) or chewy throughout (like maybe a steak?) or crunchy throughout (like cereal flakes) and then varying them.

 Finally -- rating scale -- if your daughter eats a food for several days OK, like a milkshake and then "goes off it" try to get her to be specific.   She used to like it at a level 7 or 8 and now she's "off it" -- but does she rate it a 1?   Or a 4?  If it is a 4, what could be changed to make it a 5?  Try to encourage something more than "all or nothing"/ "I liked it now I hate it".     Would it be better a little colder?   A little more whipped up so the taste of the cream isn't obvious?   (I did this with my son who ate turkey sandwiches happily for 4 days then suddenly refused them.   He eventually described that sandwich was getting boring to him and thought maybe some chopped up tomatoes and lettuce would be good -- but not the crunchy lettuce please, the lettuce that doesn't crunch.  And please, use the bread that has just a bit of sour taste to it (sourdough bread) not the squishy potato bread...   Whatever.... now he was eating the sandwiches again!)  

Your daughter seems like she has a decent amount of foods that are pretty high calorie she is able to eat, so it seems to me if you guys can work together to stave off even 25% of the times she "goes off" foods that may help you a whole lot, logistically. 
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linefine
Thanks to everyone for suggestions - we're making good progress!

Honey_Badger, Sorry it's taken me so long to acknowledge your excellent reply!  Thank you so much for all the things you said and suggested.  Lots of things I instinctively know, but have forgotten in all the chaos....

D is doing well, and has gained 7lb (3.1kg) in the last 6 weeks.  She is still resistant every day to some extent, but it's been some weeks since we had outright refusal to eat.

Heather

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonour others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always PROTECTS, always TRUSTS, always HOPES, always PERSEVERES. Love never fails.
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