F.E.A.S.T's Around The Dinner Table forum

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longhaul
What would be helpful for me to know if we were to be going to a UK IP place fairly quickly via the MHA route? possibly next week.

thanks 
(new profile for this query for extra security at home)
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scaredmom
Hi longhaul, 

I am not sure exactly what you mean by your question.
Are you concerned about how the MHA works to admit her or what to expect in IP in the UK? Sorry just want to ensure that I understand.  
I know that IP care in the UK is quite variable. I have seen those from the UK say it is a lottery as to your postal code what you get. 

I found this in the NICE guidelines   https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/ng69/chapter/Recommendations#treating-anorexia-nervosa

1.12 Using the Mental Health Act and compulsory treatment

1.12.1 If a person's physical health is at serious risk due to their eating disorder, they do not consent to treatment, and they can only be treated safely in an inpatient setting, follow the legal framework for compulsory treatment in the Mental Health Act 1983.

1.12.2 If a child or young person lacks capacity, their physical health is at serious risk and they do not consent to treatment, ask their parents or carers to consent on their behalf and if necessary, use an appropriate legal framework for compulsory treatment (such as the Mental Health Act 1983/2007 or the Children Act 1989).

1.12.3 Feeding people without their consent should only be done by multidisciplinary teams who are competent to do so.

 
When within yourself you find the road, the right road will open.  (Dejan Stojanovic)

Food+more food+time+love+good professional help+ATDT+no exercise+ state not just weight+/- the "right" medicine= healing---> recovery(--->life without ED)
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scaredmom
As you are in the UK you may already have this information, but I have posted it anyway in case others need it.
https://www.nhs.uk/using-the-nhs/nhs-services/mental-health-services/mental-health-act/

I  found this as well. https://seedeatingdisorders.org.uk/pdfs/user/F3774357-49CE-5BCB-F9BB-22ECC4C430E5.pdf
All of this makes for great reading. I hope all goes well.
When within yourself you find the road, the right road will open.  (Dejan Stojanovic)

Food+more food+time+love+good professional help+ATDT+no exercise+ state not just weight+/- the "right" medicine= healing---> recovery(--->life without ED)
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longhaul
Thanks for the info and sorry for lack of clarity. I guess I mean what actually happens? Ie how do they take the patient away etc (especially if not in a hospital already). And if you have to go at short notice, any top tips on packing etc.

Am posting in more stealth than usual so short  on explanations!
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scaredmom
Well I am not sure how they take the patient away if not in the hospital already. I am sure others from the UK will be here soon. I would suggest you pack now and hide the bags. 
When my d was IP this was our list of appropriate clothes and items (some things prohibited as concerns about SH)
  • no ties on the clothing
  • no hoodies
  • no pants or shirts with pockets
  • no strings
  • no cell phones/computers
  • no scents/perfumes (we have scent free hospitals here due to allergies and environmental illnesses)
  • needed her own shampoo and soaps as what they provided was gross pairs
  • a few pairs of  pajamas
  • slippers 
  • toothbrush toothpaste (no floss)
  • We were allowed to bring bedding from home as she was there for 3.5 weeks and at first was not allowed to leave her room except to play a game in the game room- so we tried to make it more homey
  • feminine hygiene products as required
  • hair supplies but dryers and irons not allowed.
  • other beauty supplies as required. 
  • We were not allowed glass/breakable items for obvious reasons 

All the best. I understand the stealthy posts. Makes a lot of sense. 😊

When within yourself you find the road, the right road will open.  (Dejan Stojanovic)

Food+more food+time+love+good professional help+ATDT+no exercise+ state not just weight+/- the "right" medicine= healing---> recovery(--->life without ED)
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tina72
Here we could stay for about an hour after admission and then had to leave. They will be under supervision for all meals and no bathroom privacy at the start. No cellphones or limited access to it. No visits or limited visits. Depends on the IP ward. But things are different here than in UK.

You will get a list what to bring with you I think. If not ask for it.
Take a lot of distraction with you, it is hard to do something there during visits as you are often not allowed to leave the ward at the beginning. Card games, puzzles, crosswords, painting. Books if she already can read something. Music on MP3 is often allowed (no camera access).
Keep feeding. There is light at the end of the tunnel.
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melstevUK
In general the parents/carers are expected to accompany/drive the patient to the hospital.  They will be met by staff and the patient is shown to his or her room, questions will be answered and the patient will be expected to go to the first snack or meal at whatever time that takes place. In most places I think parents will be required to leave so that treatment starts immediately. 
Units recognise that it is hard for younger patients who are away from home for the first time but there is a high level of support and staff are experienced with all these scenarios. 
The best thing you can do for your child is to stay calm, express confidence that you are doing the right thing and that your child will be fine .
It is a tough and heartbreaking experience to have your child go into hospital with an ed but if this is what is required then it has to happen. 
Keep in mind the bigger picture and achieving wellness for your child. You are doing what is needed so throw away any guilt. It is an illness which needs treating like any other and hospitalisation is one aspect. 


Believe you can and you're halfway there.
Theodore Roosevelt.
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longhaul
Thanks all - all really useful thoughts/info. 
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tina72
Be prepared that your child may cry and begg you to take him/her home again and stay firm and confident (fake it if needed).
Keep feeding. There is light at the end of the tunnel.
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Foodsupport_AUS
I am not sure about the UK however I can tell you what happens in Australia with relatively similar rules. If a place became available here then if possible the parents would take their child there. If there was refusal violence then police and ambulance would be used if someone was to be admitted under MHA. To be admitted from outside of a hospital they would be escorted to a place where a practitioner was available to certify the person under the MHA and then on to where ever that admission may be. 

My D was transferred to a psychiatric from an acute medical ward. She had been medically unstable and then once stablised was suicidal and made a number of attempts in hospital requiring full time surveillance whilst in the medical ward. It took two weeks for them get a psychiatric bed available. She was not given an option about going in the ambulance and unfortunately I only found out once she was in it. We then met at the psychiatric ward where she was advised that she could be admitted voluntarily or if she refused they would admit her under the MHA. She chose voluntarily. 
D diagnosed restrictive AN June 2010 age 13.5. Weight restored July 2012. Relapse and now clawing our way back. Treatment: multiple hospitalisations and individual and family therapy.
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longhaul
Thanks. Foodsupport - i think your first para is what is likely to happen here from what I have been told so far.
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deenl
Hi longhaul,

We had an emergency admission to psychiatric care and a planned one to the hospital. The first chaotic and traumatic and the second much better. In both cases we had to drive our son there. He fought wildly against us the first time and the second, I knew he would be admitted and he either did not know or only knew there was a chance. I can't really remember. Funny that even the horrible times fade.

Anyway, my tip is to do some scenario planning. Plan A she is calm and you drive her there. Plan B she refuses to leave the house, etc. Ask your team what assistance is available. Make sure there is someone to sit beside her and the child locks are on so she does not flee. Lock the house windows and doors so she cannot run away.

I found the first time that our son was terrified and would take extreme measures to try to avoid it, so hope for the best and prepare (both emotionally and practically) for the doo-doo to hit the fan.

Wishing you the best of luck,

D

PS I like the name - acceptance of the journey combined with determination to see it through
2015 12yo son restricting but no body image issues, no fat phobia; lost weight IP! Oct 2015 home, stable but no progress. Medical hosp to kick start recovery Feb 2016. Slowly and cautiously gaining weight at home and seeing signs of our real kid.

May 2017 Hovering around WR. Mood great, mostly. Building up hour by hour at school after 18 months at home. Summer 2017 Happy, first trip away in years, food variety, begin socialising. Sept 2017, back to school FT first time in 2 years. [thumb] 2018 growing so fast hard to keep pace with weight
  • Swedish proverb: Love me when I least deserve it because that's when I need it most.
  • We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence Recovery, then, is not an act but a habit. Aristotle.
  • If the plan doesn't work, change the plan but never the goal.
  • We cannot control the wind but we can direct the sail.
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longhaul
Thanks deenl. Still waiting for news of a bed. Like being in the middle of a storm and waiting for the other side to hit (or so I imagine).
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deenl
The second time, we (parents) had a date but the waiting was just awful. Pretending to go about normal life while I was so unsettled and just impatient to get moving to the next phase and have some action. I feel for you. As they say, this too shall pass.

Fingers crossed that you get a bed soon,

D
2015 12yo son restricting but no body image issues, no fat phobia; lost weight IP! Oct 2015 home, stable but no progress. Medical hosp to kick start recovery Feb 2016. Slowly and cautiously gaining weight at home and seeing signs of our real kid.

May 2017 Hovering around WR. Mood great, mostly. Building up hour by hour at school after 18 months at home. Summer 2017 Happy, first trip away in years, food variety, begin socialising. Sept 2017, back to school FT first time in 2 years. [thumb] 2018 growing so fast hard to keep pace with weight
  • Swedish proverb: Love me when I least deserve it because that's when I need it most.
  • We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence Recovery, then, is not an act but a habit. Aristotle.
  • If the plan doesn't work, change the plan but never the goal.
  • We cannot control the wind but we can direct the sail.
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longhaul
Yes, and with every passing day I'm thinking 'am I really doing the right thing?'
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deenl
Yuk, I remember how that felt. It sounds trite but we can only do our best given the situation and the options in front of us. And remember it is very rare that anything is 100% good or bad. Our first IP was a nightmare but I can still see that they kept him alive when he was most suicidal and I had time to gather myself, read and learn. Bad and all as it was, it may have been worst if he was at home.... but still it's impossible to stop turning everything over in our heads during these uncertain periods. Remember to consciously include some thoughts that are the sort of thing you would say to a friend among all the other thoughts!

Hang in there, 

D
2015 12yo son restricting but no body image issues, no fat phobia; lost weight IP! Oct 2015 home, stable but no progress. Medical hosp to kick start recovery Feb 2016. Slowly and cautiously gaining weight at home and seeing signs of our real kid.

May 2017 Hovering around WR. Mood great, mostly. Building up hour by hour at school after 18 months at home. Summer 2017 Happy, first trip away in years, food variety, begin socialising. Sept 2017, back to school FT first time in 2 years. [thumb] 2018 growing so fast hard to keep pace with weight
  • Swedish proverb: Love me when I least deserve it because that's when I need it most.
  • We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence Recovery, then, is not an act but a habit. Aristotle.
  • If the plan doesn't work, change the plan but never the goal.
  • We cannot control the wind but we can direct the sail.
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deenl
P.S. I have many regrets and things I would change if we had time travel. In time I have made peace with them and now can accept them and not feel guilt. I did all that I was capable of. 
2015 12yo son restricting but no body image issues, no fat phobia; lost weight IP! Oct 2015 home, stable but no progress. Medical hosp to kick start recovery Feb 2016. Slowly and cautiously gaining weight at home and seeing signs of our real kid.

May 2017 Hovering around WR. Mood great, mostly. Building up hour by hour at school after 18 months at home. Summer 2017 Happy, first trip away in years, food variety, begin socialising. Sept 2017, back to school FT first time in 2 years. [thumb] 2018 growing so fast hard to keep pace with weight
  • Swedish proverb: Love me when I least deserve it because that's when I need it most.
  • We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence Recovery, then, is not an act but a habit. Aristotle.
  • If the plan doesn't work, change the plan but never the goal.
  • We cannot control the wind but we can direct the sail.
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longhaul
well, having spent all week on tenterhooks, it won't be this week after all.  still waiting to hear about a bed - although really how long does that query take? surely hospitals are replying to bed queries every day? or maybe not, maybe it's a weekly thing. 
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scaredmom
I do hope one comes available soon. I know here the bed situation is only known on a day to day basis. If there is a very urgent/ ill child even if there are others that are ill, the sicker one gets the first bed available. Triaging the referrals happens all day long here. Sometimes the bed is available after 2 pm for example, but not in the morning. 
Also when they discharge they made day to day evaluations for my d. I recall they said on Friday she would like be there for another week then she was sent home for an overnight the Saturday to Monday. Monday after family meeting she was discharged! As we could not pick her up until after 5 pm she stayed until then. I am not sure if that is what is happening there but i wrote this to maybe help you? Of course I don’t really know what they are doing in your case.
When within yourself you find the road, the right road will open.  (Dejan Stojanovic)

Food+more food+time+love+good professional help+ATDT+no exercise+ state not just weight+/- the "right" medicine= healing---> recovery(--->life without ED)
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longhaul
my worry is that camhs have changed their mind; that they have decided we need to try harder instead, or decided to go a slower route to getting a 2nd opinion.  that they didn't put the bed request in until days after they said. we are seeing them tomorrow so I will quiz them then.
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longhaul
so far they haven't said one isn't available, but that they haven't heard back.
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scaredmom

Got it. I did not know that part of it. That is a concern for sure.
By all means yes, quiz them and don't let them off the hook!

All the best

When within yourself you find the road, the right road will open.  (Dejan Stojanovic)

Food+more food+time+love+good professional help+ATDT+no exercise+ state not just weight+/- the "right" medicine= healing---> recovery(--->life without ED)
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tina72
Be the sqeeky wheel and phone them daily. That often helped.
RE changing beds/discharge: here the discharge day is normally friday and the new patients are admitted on mondays but that might defer there. But you could ask cahms for that.
Keep feeding. There is light at the end of the tunnel.
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hopefulheart
Hi. My ‘child’ turned 18 last month. After 4 years of relentless treatment at home, she went to stay with a friend for a short while(who was aware and knew that support was needed). She returned 8kg lower and in my insistence, was admitted. 
However, the only bed available was on an adult psychiatric ward. She has her own room and bathroom. It is a frightening place for her and I really hate leaving her there. BUT they are doing daily obs, bloods and heart tracings. She has been put on a 10 day refeeding programme and is on bed rest/wheelchair use with 24 hr supervision. I take all that as positives.
My big concerns are that they are not an ED specialist unit. 
As a result, she is not required to eat every scrap and I’m concerned that they are missing the behaviours (ie keeping food in mouth......) If I question  I seem like the interfering mother and it affects the trust In trying to have with the staff. And my daughter tries to triangulate and manipulate. 
Is it usual in the UK for IP to be on psychiatric wards? Does it work? I’m in Scotland. If anyone has any experience/advice I’d appreciate.
I didn’t mean to hijack your post! This is all recent (the last week) and I, too, have had to learn quickly. 
I’d agree with what’s been said. Keeping pushing CAHMS, have a bag hidden and ready, have plan A and B for getting your child there (lock doors, have someone there with you if possible). And ask questions once there. 
And take tissues for when you leave....because I couldn’t show my girl I was devastated but I let it out afterwards and know from the wonderful advice here, that I have NOT failed as a mum, and I am doing the best I can for her. 
You will too. Much love x
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Foodsupport_AUS
longhaul, I hope you get some clarification from them about the plan. I agree with remaining resolute that this is what needs to happen and nagging.

Hopefulheart, I am sorry that your D has taken some steps backwards. I can't comment about the balance of psychiatric places vs. ED specialist in the UK but did you want to start your own thread with this post? You could copy your post and then just start a new thread with it, then answers will be applying to you. 
D diagnosed restrictive AN June 2010 age 13.5. Weight restored July 2012. Relapse and now clawing our way back. Treatment: multiple hospitalisations and individual and family therapy.
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