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Baja Show full post »
Baja
Thanks for your compassion Scaredmum, Tina, ACL and Ronson - I feel a bit better already😉
What I will change immediately is to eat things that are different from hers (including fear foods - I like the idea to let her watch without insisting she eats), I will just cook 2 different things and that should do the trick. I still find it very different to behave "normally" when I watch her picking at her food and eating extremely slowly - it just gets on my nerves. As a family we eat together at least once a day, if 3 of us are done and I dismiss our son from the table she wants to leave too, but it isnt fair to let him wait... it's a stretch. She also doesn't eat deserts.
I will keep going but D never accepted the magic plate and will certainly not be willing to do this. But let's say half of the time she does eat an acceptable portion, enriched food whenever possible, and indeed, this is how we got her to gain 8 kg so let's just keep going even if it might take a bit longer.
Still cant believe the therapist said that 8kg in 4 months is way too much and too fast🙂. The therapist was recommended to me as "experienced with ED" but I think her experience consists of sad cases of adults who had been ill for many years before starting a therapy...
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Torie
Baja wrote:
Please tell me whether I should dismiss and forget this conversation took place?


Oh dang, that t is clearly not up to date with the current thinking about AN.  I would run away and never go back.

I wonder if there is any way you and your h could bring her to the US for one of the weeklong family programs - there is one in Ohio that is not quite so far from you and one in California, which is a great place for a vacation (in case that would provide some motivation to get your d on the plane).  

I agree with Tina that her weight needs to go up in order to start the brain healing - not the other way around.  I'm so sorry the "help" there is worse than no help at all - seems to be true for both your d and your self.  In addition to TIna's "different people have different needs" mantra, I always pointed out to my d that "when you are my age, your needs will be different than they are right now."  Oddly, she/ED never figured out how to argue about that one. xx

-Torie
"We are angels of hope, of healing, and of light. Darkness flees from us." -YP 
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Baja
tina72 wrote:
 To be honest, NO. The mental state improves at a good weight and a good weight is seen by changes in mood and state. Then + some months brain recovery starts. I thought the same as you but with being just not underweight we had no changes here. I added 1-2 kg and then saw some tiny baby steps of change and keeping this higher weight + working on fear food every week + 4 months brain recovery started.
You just lengthen the bad state if you wait. Sorry for these honest words.


Thanks a lot Tina, I know we are lengthening a bad state but at the moment I don't see a solution... If her weight is at least stable or increases slowly, I will need extra strength and keep going. If she loses weight this could convince her to accept more food again. But I cannot logically convince her to comply with arguments about neural rewiring etc... and I will not let her loose weight on purpose, not if I can help it. I dont want to stay here forever, so I would reconsider in a few weeks...
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Baja
Thanks Torie, will try that one!
Torie wrote:
... pointed out to my d that "when you are my age, your needs will be different than they are right now."  Oddly, she/ED never figured out how to argue about that one. xx-Torie


I vaguely read about the weeklong programs. Would that exist in the UK as well? If I can find the financial means I would consider it... And in Ohio/California: do they accept girls who donot think they are sick (any longer)? My H just decided to cancel our plans for a trip over easter, our D is not yet "travel-compatible" but a treatment trip would be different...
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ACL
All the evidence is that fast weight gain is best. It is distressing no matter how fast it is and weight restoration is required for brain healing. 
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ValentinaGermania
Baja wrote:
Thanks Torie, will try that one!
Baja wrote:


I vaguely read about the weeklong programs. Would that exist in the UK as well? If I can find the financial means I would consider it... And in Ohio/California: do they accept girls who donot think they are sick (any longer)? My H just decided to cancel our plans for a trip over easter, our D is not yet "travel-compatible" but a treatment trip would be different...


UC San Diego has a well recommended 5 day intense family program to get started with FBT. I do not think that they exclude patients who do not feel sick because that is normal with AN. I have no idea about the cost but use search button with UCSD to get more information. Maybe worth a try to get on track again.

Still want to cover this stupid therapist with good information up to her head....
Keep feeding. There is light at the end of the tunnel.
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Mamaroo
Baja wrote:
I just went to see a therapist for me... I doubt I will go back but need to let this settle in... or not. Please tell me whether I should dismiss and forget this conversation took place?


My goodness! I wanted to say I can't believe what happened to you, but sadly I was also told that my 9 year old got AN because she felt out of control and that food was the only thing she was able to control. Also did not go back there again. Now is the time to get her back to good health otherwise she could be stuck with this illness for a very long time and then it gets so much harder to treat. 

My d still needs more food than the rest of the family, I tell her that she has a high metabolism and for the time being there is nothing we can do about it. All we can do now is to give her more snacks and I plate larger meals for her. You don't need to logically convince her to eat more, logic has left the building, sadly. Can you look for the higher calorie version of what you are already buying?You were able to get 8kg on her, can you keep on doing what you did then?  
D became obsessed with exercise at age 9 and started eating 'healthy' at age 9.5. Restricting couple of months later. IP for 2 weeks at age 10. Slowly refed for months on Ensures alone, followed by swap over with food at a snails pace. WR after a year at age 11 in March 2017. View my recipes on my YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKLW6A6sDO3ZDq8npNm8_ww
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debra18
Please dismiss what the therapist said and keep feeding
 
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Baja
Thanks, we keep trying but she struggles. "don't your worry about cooking tonight, I'll just have a carrot". yeah right... Then I cooked her favourite Marocanian Couscous dish and she suddenly didnt like it because the dried fruits tasted too sweet....
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Mamaroo
It is hard if you went through all the trouble cooking their favourite dish and they don't like it. I was a really picky eater growing up and I didn't want my children to be picky, so I taught them to eat whatever is placed before them, telling them that they don't have to like it, they just need to eat it. If they want something to eat that they like, it is called dessert. 

Was your d able to eat dinner? 
D became obsessed with exercise at age 9 and started eating 'healthy' at age 9.5. Restricting couple of months later. IP for 2 weeks at age 10. Slowly refed for months on Ensures alone, followed by swap over with food at a snails pace. WR after a year at age 11 in March 2017. View my recipes on my YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKLW6A6sDO3ZDq8npNm8_ww
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Baja

Thanks Mamaroo,
We used to be a family where everybody would eat and at least try what was on the table... Now we have a very picky eater and a teenage boy who wants meat meat meat...
At the moment I’m just trying to offer enough food and watching her take about half of it… What happened on Friday is that I left the breakfast table for a minute and she went to hide her fruits/nuts in the compost bin. My reaction was “if you hide things you’re being dishonest to yourself more than anything else”. Saturday I went to her room to say that I go to the market, saw her in sports outfit and thought she was doing workout… I just left to the market and felt sad. When I came back she told me she had felt bad, too and had written me a letter to explain.

In the letter she basically told me off for looking like a “beaten dog” and ruining her mood because she was actually having a good time singing in her room and was not doing workout at all. That I should use whatsapp to communicate futilities like “I go to the market” and not disturb her. That we seem to think it’s the disease that makes hide breakfast but that this is not true, it’s the external circumstances (us) that push her to lie. That her being is not AN, but a person who is allowed to have fun and not worry. This is a point taken, she is right about that and it makes me even sadder that she feels like this. She wants to get away from “sadness, suspicion, jealousy (!), worry” and breathe her own air. She finished with “Please stop being sad and worried, just trust me and give me the space I need without questioning all the time”.

I just explained that I can do efforts to accommodate both her and her brother’s needs but I cannot switch off my thoughts, worries or moods as they are not deliberate to annoy anybody… If I’m down, especially after being sleepless, I just need a bit of space for myself as well…

 

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ValentinaGermania
"“Please stop being sad and worried, just trust me and give me the space I need without questioning all the time”."
You did try to trust her and she is lying to you.
She throws away the food she should eat. Is that healthy? Oecological? Logical at all?

Why the hell should she put sports outfit on to just SING? Nobody believes that. Does she really think you will believe such a stupid explanation?

Why does she want you to write her whatsapps instead of coming into her room? Because she has to hide something. Because she does not want to be catched by doing workout. There is no other reason for that. It is not normal to write each other whatsapps if you are in the same house...
Sorry. She is playing with you. I would take off her room door now...

"That we seem to think it’s the disease that makes hide breakfast but that this is not true, it’s the external circumstances (us) that push her to lie."
That is best sentence of all. Did you tell her to hide the fruit and nuts in the bin? Surely not. So what could you have done to make her hide it and lie? You asked her to eat it. That was your "fault" in ANs eyes.

Is it normal not to eat fruits and nuts that are there for breakfast (we are not talking about a real breakfast, just about some fruits and nuts!) and hide this in the bin? No, it is AN behaviour. No healthy person would have the idea to throw away food that is o.k. to eat. If she just did not want to have fruit and nuts she could have put it back into the cupboard...

It is AN making her do these things, no one else. No external circumstances explain that behaviour.
Keep feeding. There is light at the end of the tunnel.
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Baja
I know Tina I know, it’s just that as soon as I insist she goes into shut down/refusal.
i just went out for lunch with a friend to take some air but she had just witnessed the son of another friend being force-taken to hospital because of agression and self harm (not AN but ADS). Some people are off worse and I will need a different trigger to get her back on FBT ... I know I cannot hold this forever but believe me, nothing works to tell her what she is saying and writing is fooling herself. I dont back off but there is just no way I can make her understand comply or eat. 
as soon as her weight would drop it’s a different story but this is the misery: she restricted 14 months at the same level without loosing any weight before... of course now I know everything you say and it’s horribly frightening to watch what she does and says but what oh what can i do? The door of her room is still kaput by the way...
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Enn
I am sorry Baja, that things are so difficult. It seems as if ED is really strong right now. I wonder if your D needs constant supervision ie 24/7. 
I think she is exercising and not singing. I would consider taking her with me when I went out shopping or errands. I know that we usually say not to take them to the grocery store, but in order to ensure she is not exercising, you may need to. 

Baja wrote:

nothing works to tell her what she is saying and writing is fooling herself.


You are right, you cannot rationalise any of this with her- so maybe you don't discuss it with her at all? I know she likes school and she gets help from you when required for her studies. Baja, have you considered taking her out of school? I know it is a hard thing to do and the fall out (the child's upset) can be difficult to bear, but I wonder if short term pain right now and consequences for not eating will pay off later, in a good way.

I hope the rest of the day goes better.
XXX
When within yourself you find the road, the right road will open.  (Dejan Stojanovic)

Food+more food+time+love+good professional help+ATDT+no exercise+ state not just weight+/- the "right" medicine= healing---> recovery(--->life without ED)
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ValentinaGermania
"it’s just that as soon as I insist she goes into shut down/refusal"
That is normal. The problem is that she gets through with that at the moment. She just needs to shut down and she gets rid of you. She needs to learn that shut down and refusing to eat means for her then to do nothing and sit in her room on the bed. No cellphone, no activities, no school. No nothing.
How can you find out wether she has not already lost some kg? I know from another mom whos d lost 3 kg within a week just by hiding afternoon snack and starting to exercise again.
Did you check her PC and smartphone for pro*n* sites? I just read in one chat that girls tell each other to have a warm cushion against hunger. Reminds me of your d wanting to sit in the sun and have fireplace on...
Keep feeding. There is light at the end of the tunnel.
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Baja
Thanks Tina, not sure how to check... I might just ask her... how are these sites called? Didnt even know it existed...
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Baja
Thanks Scaredmum
scaredmom wrote:
I am sorry Baja, that things are so difficult. It seems as if ED is really strong right now.

Food+more food+time+love+good professional help+ATDT+no exercise+ state not just weight+/- the "right" medicine= healing---> recovery(--->life without ED)
XXX


I really like your "headline" although for the time being I only do "some" Food+more food+time+love+good professional help+ATDT+no exercise+ state not just weight+/- the "right" medicine= healing---> recovery(--->life without ED)

But I will get there, I will find a way, just like I did make her gain those 8kg

Goodnight everyone!
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Enn
I know you will get there and no two journeys are the same. You will find your unique way and it will be fine.
XXX
When within yourself you find the road, the right road will open.  (Dejan Stojanovic)

Food+more food+time+love+good professional help+ATDT+no exercise+ state not just weight+/- the "right" medicine= healing---> recovery(--->life without ED)
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Mamaroo
I agree with what the others have said. Her response to your telling her she is going to the market is not normal. And, if I were you, I would be popping into her room more often just to check she is not exercising. During these holidays my d would sit in her room with her door close and that would concern us, so we told her to keep the door open unless she is speaking to a friend on the phone. 

Like Tina said it is not normal to throw away food. What is normal is to say: "I can't finish my yogurt now, can I put it in the fridge and finish it in half an hours time?" Maybe you can ask your d to tell you when she is struggling with something (like the fruit and nuts in her breakfast cereal) and you can support her to finish it. 

As for the sites Tina told you about, I would not ask her about it, because it might put ideas in her head. Can you take her phone randomly and check what she is watching?

Sending you lots of hugs!!!!!!!!!!!!!
D became obsessed with exercise at age 9 and started eating 'healthy' at age 9.5. Restricting couple of months later. IP for 2 weeks at age 10. Slowly refed for months on Ensures alone, followed by swap over with food at a snails pace. WR after a year at age 11 in March 2017. View my recipes on my YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKLW6A6sDO3ZDq8npNm8_ww
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ValentinaGermania
I will write you a private mail about these sites as I do not want them to be "advertised" here.
Keep feeding. There is light at the end of the tunnel.
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