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mjkz

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Reply with quote  #26 
keepsmiling, it is so good to hear you have a plan.  Do whatever you have to in order to get past this hurdle.  Let us know how we can help and I'll be sending good thoughts to you!!!

KJ-don't be shooting down crocheting here!!! [wink]  Some die hard fans may not agree (no seriously I do think she needs more than just crocheting but glad she has a hobby that she is so good at.)
Torie

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Reply with quote  #27 
Hi keepsmiling - I just wanted to add one small suggestion to the great ideas you have had and others have offered: I wonder if it would be useful to contribute a bit of money to her crochet supplies fund each time she completes a meal or snack? 

Keep up the good work. xx

-Torie

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toothfairy

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Reply with quote  #28 
There is a coffee talk tomorrow with Laura Collins & mamabear,
I have no doubt that would be a great starting point to start to reframe if you could possibly link in (I guess by phone or skype).
I am sure it will be well worth getting sone advice / info there.
I will bump thread ..
Best wishes

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Son,DX with AN, (purging type) age 13 in October 2015 ,  (4 months immediate inpatient) , Then FBT at home since.and making progress every day. He is now in good recovery, and Living life to the full like a normal teen. We are not completely out of the woods yet, but we can see the light at the end of the tunnel, thanks to ATDT. Hoping to get him into full recovery and remission one day at a time.
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Reply with quote  #29 
Thanks everyone, we are so grateful for such amazing support.  

melstevUK - I have to say you are completely right, it is a marathon but, like everyone here, I wish it was just a sprint :/  

All we want is for our D to be able to have the life she deserves.  Prior to the illness she was extremely successful at so many things - academic, art, music - all the usual for most of our D's.  We have never pushed her into anything, just allowed her to find what she wants to do so it is heartbreaking to see her leaving some of her dreams behind.  She hasn't done any art or music since diagnosis; she did sit her GCSE exams last summer after being out of school for four months and despite not being at school or doing any revision managed top grades.  However she no  longer seems motivated to return to school or live the life she had worked so hard for.  Since she was 3 she has wanted to be a vet and was gathering work experience ready for an application to University after A levels but of course all that has had to stop too.  I know that she still wants to be a vet and she even occasionally talks about qualifying and emigrating to Australia but even that isn't enough to help her fight this.  

We will fight and fight and fight to get her well, then keep her well and take the future as it comes.
kayjay

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Reply with quote  #30 
Haha I like to crochet. And I know my D is sitting in her inpatient unit with her crochet on her knee right now.

I just mean that I think we all want our kids to have a full, rich, 'big' life, rather than the narrow existence that ED gives them :-(

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D, 16, diagnosed with AN Aug 2016. One day at a time...
EC_Mom

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Reply with quote  #31 
KeepSmiling, your resolve is showing and we are cheering for you!

I found that VERY short term, even immediate, leverage was crucial for refeeding--as in, "After you finish lunch we can go to the yarn store and get you some new blue." And then, "After dinner we can go online and pick out some new crochet needles" (or whatever..). Or "as long as you are eating we can look at a screen and you can start picking out colors". Then I would coax my kid, sometimes for hours, with that leverage. 
mjkz

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Reply with quote  #32 
Quote:
I just mean that I think we all want our kids to have a full, rich, 'big' life, rather than the narrow existence that ED gives them :-(


Totally agree.

This is where life stops until you eat or gain weight gets really hard.  KS, your daughter's dreams are still alive but she just can't see them right now.  One of the things I had to do at times like this was feed not only her body but her spirit in a sense.  My daughter has always been motivated by animals and animal care so I got her volunteer jobs that were not physically strenuous but that kept her interest alive to keep her eating and gaining.   One summer she sat on a stool for 3 hours and fed baby birds every half an hour.  I scheduled her for shifts that she could eat before and after, dropped her off and picked her up.  It was just enough to shift her focus outside of home and herself to what she really wanted to do.  Very short term goals as EC_Mom is talking about worked very well too.  My daughter loves to knit and crochet.  We did simple things like for every time she met her weight gain goal, she got to go to the yarn store and pick out new stuff.  She would spend hours on pinterest (still does) looking at patterns.  She would get internet time after she finished a snack or meal.  Each time she was successful, she got her allotted time that day.  We had a contract that she refused to sign and swore up and down she would not participate in but I ended up forcing her to in spite of her best efforts by the very short term concrete steps and finding things that got her out of the house, got her interest and gave her the strength to meet the goals.  It was so hard to motivate her and honestly nothing really motivated her.  It was more me forcing every step by making the things she liked to do conditional on finishing meals and snacks and getting her involved in what used to interest her.


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Reply with quote  #33 
keepsmiling,

my d loves animals and wanted nothing more than to be a vet - but ultimately she realised that she did not like studying and after her illness started her interests changed and she became a child oncology nurse.  She would have been a wonderful vet but she is also an amazing nurse.  Her life went in a different direction and she is doing her chemotherapy training because it will give her other options, including going abroad if she wants to do that.

Your d may have gone on to vet school and then found this was not she really wanted.  She may even go on studying and eventually be a vet, even if it takes her longer to get there.

This illness interrupts life but pushing your d onto a recovery path and gently encouraging her to strive to be well and think about her dreams may well lead her back on to this path.  But she seems incredibly creative too - so she may choose another direction.

Keep demanding support that works and pushing your d along a wellness path - but also keep encouraging her to think about all her interests and what she wants to do with her life.  Her path may be more meandering than the path of her peers - but it will eventually lead to a satisfying life.  Dreams and beliefs are so important at this stage - don't ever let allow her to lose interest in hers.

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keepsmiling

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Reply with quote  #34 
H & I are looking at this as a completely fresh start and deal with it very differently from anything we have tried so far.  Everything done so far didn't work so it all begins again :/  We are talking all the time about what this will look like and making sure we are completely together on every aspect of it.  D, of course, is far from impressed and just says she won't do it.  We know that it is her choice, we cannot force-feed her, but she also knows we are fighting for her but that if this proves too difficult then she will go to IP via a section, supported by us.  

I completely agree that we need to use short-term goals but am really stuck about what to use.  Since she is selling her crochet patterns to magazines she pays for most of her own yarns and has just accepted it if we have said she cannot walk her dog, even though she wants to.  I would love her to get more experience with animals but in the UK it is incredibly difficult to get unless you are 18 - prior to the ED we had contacted just about every animal care place in the county but none would take her until 18 due to insurance.  There is nothing else left to use as motivation so it's tricky.

I have been looking at the Maudsley and wonder if I should phone them to discuss referral?  I know they do day treatment and that to get in she would need to be referred by her consultant but I might at least find out if she meets their criteria.  What do people think?  Has anyone out-of-area been to them as outpatient?  How did it work?  We live about 2 1/2 hours away by train (probably 3 by car) but it would be do-able if they took her, or should we look to stay locally?  Sorry, I am getting carried away - she probably wouldn't be accepted anyway, I am just desperate to get her help.
scared_and_exhausted

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Reply with quote  #35 
Keepsmiling,

Ring the maudsley. If for some reason they cannot help your D, they can at the very least give you concrete and reliable advice. My D went for an assessment at the OCD clinic at the maudsley but they would not treat her as she is far too underweight and CAMHS would not pay for ED referral. But it seems like a good place, for the best of the best treatment. Give it a go!!
Kali

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Reply with quote  #36 
Keepsmiling, 

Starting over and trying new things and calling the Maudsley for a consultation for your d. sounds like an excellent plan! 

Kali

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mjkz

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Reply with quote  #37 
Quote:
 Sorry, I am getting carried away - she probably wouldn't be accepted anyway, I am just desperate to get her help.


Even though you think she won't be accepted, do it anyway.  You've got nothing to lose at this point and I think you might be surprised at how sick other people will see her.  Take any opportunity you can find.

My daughter was actually making her own money selling CDs of a band (I'm dating myself even mentioning CDs) she used to play in.  She did it over the internet and needed a computer to do it so I used computer time as a short term incentive to eat.  She couldn't do it without the computer and internet.  She had a phone that needed paying for, etc.  I just slowly closed every opportunity for her to do anything other than eat in order to keep doing even the little bit she was doing.

I don't know how animal shelters work in the UK but here they often use foster homes for kittens and young cats when they need care.  I don't know if that is something you would be willing to or even able to do but that might be an option to keep her love of animals going.  I didn't think of the age thing but most here in the US want a parent there if under 18 (and most will take 16 and 17 but only if the parent is there) so it is pretty similar.  Did you by any chance try wildlife rehabbers?  They will sometimes take someone younger because they need the help. A parent might have to go too if that is doable for you.  Just throwing out some ideas so take what you can use and leave the rest keepsmiling.  I love your attitude and using this as a start over to do things differently!!!
Torie

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Reply with quote  #38 
Quote:
Originally Posted by keepsmiling
H & I are looking at this as a completely fresh start and deal with it very differently from anything we have tried so far.  


Love that!

Quote:
Originally Posted by keepsmiling
We are talking all the time about what this will look like and making sure we are completely together on every aspect of it.


Especially love that!

Quote:
Originally Posted by keepsmiling
 D, of course, is far from impressed and just says she won't do it.  We know that it is her choice


Uh, no.  It is not her choice - it is ED's choice (sort of).  You and ED are locked in a battle for your d. Your "real" d is quite incapable of making choices pertaining to health at the moment.

One thing that helped me was when someone (Laura?) pointed out that we don't force them to eat; we require them to eat.  It is a good trick, and one that requires considerable thought and effort to create a pathway where not eating is harder / worse than eating.  Mjkz has given some good ideas to harness her crochet interest.  It will take some time to cobble together a working plan that succeeds in requiring her to eat - we each have to find our own way, and we each make our own share of mistakes along the way.

Keep swimming - you will get there. xx

-Torie

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NELLY_UK

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Reply with quote  #39 
Hi we were offered day patient at The Maudsley. It was 9-4 every day and it was voluntary so d had to really want to go and to buy in to their meal plans. It was aimed at AN and she has BN but she refused to go and they said they couldnt work with someone unless they chose recovery. D would have has to quit her apprenticeship, i would have taken a career break from work, but for us it was a 3-4 hour journey each way.
Of course they may recommend in patient then your trust would have no choice. Not sure protocol allows that to happen, you would hope so.

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NELLY D 18 bulimic since age 12, diagnosed in 2011. 20 months useless CAMHs,7 months great IP, home March 14..... more useless CAMHs.now an adult & no MH services are involved. I reached the end of my tether, tied a knot in it and am hanging on. Bulimia treatmentis in the dark ages in West Sussex.
toothfairy

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Reply with quote  #40 
This may be useful for you 
http://tabithafarrar.com/podcast/professor-janet-treasure-maudsley-adults-eating-disorders-community/

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Son,DX with AN, (purging type) age 13 in October 2015 ,  (4 months immediate inpatient) , Then FBT at home since.and making progress every day. He is now in good recovery, and Living life to the full like a normal teen. We are not completely out of the woods yet, but we can see the light at the end of the tunnel, thanks to ATDT. Hoping to get him into full recovery and remission one day at a time.
EC_Mom

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Reply with quote  #41 
My d is also very into animals. We promised her a bunny for recovery, but that didn't get us anywhere--too far away (ultimately though she cashed in on that when she was better!). I looked into volunteering with animals but yes, the age minimum and commitment required were prohibitive.

One thing I proposed is that we take our (loving, friendly) dog to visit old people in front of the senior center. The elderly hang out outside on a nice day, and we wouldn't need special permission if we just walk by and offer to let them pet our dog. She loved this idea. But it only happened AFTER eating.

Another thing, if you are ultimately prepared to adopt another animal, is to propose visiting shelters and looking at the animals, but only after eating. Maybe make the requirement that you visit at least 20 shelters or something before choosing, to maximize the number of times you can use this leverage? 

I like the idea of fostering an animal (but be prepared to adopt it!!). Then she can cuddle and play with the animal AFTER she eats. Or WHILE eating.
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Reply with quote  #42 
We have a house rabbit and she is adorable, my d loves her and so do we! She is so well behaved and clean. I would recommend a bunny to everyone who doesnt have time for a dog.
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NELLY D 18 bulimic since age 12, diagnosed in 2011. 20 months useless CAMHs,7 months great IP, home March 14..... more useless CAMHs.now an adult & no MH services are involved. I reached the end of my tether, tied a knot in it and am hanging on. Bulimia treatmentis in the dark ages in West Sussex.
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Reply with quote  #43 
My D is also animal mad. She is now at university in her first year of veterinary studies. When things were desperate and she was cycling in and out of hospital as she just couldn't eat outside of one, I promised her a new dog that she was to be responsible for. She was 14 nearly 15 at the time. First came the planning, she wanted a golden retriever. Then came the finding a breeder. We put our name on the list the day after conception. That gave us nine weeks till the puppies were born and eight weeks till we got it home. All the time using it as a constant conversation, planning names, training etc.. She kept on eating the whole time, though her mood was terrible. That puppy became her lifeline, a reason for her. We are now five years down the track, we have a much loved family dog who symbolises for D a reason to recover.
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D diagnosed restrictive AN June 2010 age 13.5. Weight restored July 2012. Relapse and now clawing our way back. Treatment: multiple hospitalisations and individual and family therapy.
keepsmiling

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Reply with quote  #44 
Well, I am definitely going to ring the Maudsley tomorrow but it's almost certainly not going to get me anywhere as D just won't engage with any treatment so if it has to be voluntary then it's a no-go.  All along her consultant has wanted her to go IP but D has always refused.  D engages at the bare minimum (sees a therapist, gets weighed once a week and has bloods etc done when told to) but won't do anything else.  We went on a family therapy weekend last year but D refused to go - we were the only family there without a child which made us feel awful but getting a screaming teen into or out of a car is rather tricky :/

Last spring D was at a very low point where she threatened suicide, self-harmed and cried almost all of the rest of the time so that is when we got her a puppy.  It was something to live for and get well for and it certainly worked in the sense that her moods immediately improved, suicide ideations lessened so that they are almost completely gone and self-harm has stopped.  However, she got herself to a 'safe' weight ( she could no longer be sectioned to go IP) and has kept herself there until recently, when she dropped just under and is struggling to gain enough to get back to her 'safe place'.  

Since she dropped her movements have been restricted including, obviously, no dog walking, but she now just accepts that, doesn't put up a fight and doesn't allow it to motivate her to gain.  AN has such a strong hold on her that nothing seems to help, hence why we are fighting harder than ever now.  

IP is definitely an option at the moment but, as usual, sectioning takes ages to arrange unless they are very severe and she doesn't qualify as an emergency so we have to wait for a meeting in two weeks to see what the consultant has decided.  In the meantime we will fight for gains, not to avoid IP but actually to see if she can do it for us with our new strategies or whether she will continue to lose as she fights us at every turn.  If she carries on losing then sectioning becomes even more likely but at least then something would be happening to help her.  D is adamant that she will not accept any changes and will refuse any meals that she thinks we have tried to 'cheat' her on but we have explained that food is her medicine, that we know she is extremely ill and that we will give her what she needs to make her better.  Her continual response is 'Well I won't eat it' so we have also explained that we will be happy for her to go to IP if that is what it takes to get her well as it is probably where she needs to be right now but that she does have the opportunity to avoid that if she wants to.  We are not making IP sound terrible or somewhere she wouldn't want to be as that would be counter-productive if she does end up there.  It is being presented as a treatment option that will help her to recovery.  

We are also looking at things we can use to motivate and will probably remove access to the internet if she doesn't eat, earning it back when she does.  We will also give rewards for eating such as new yarns, trips to the craft shop etc.  

Thanks again everyone, you are inspirational and we are so grateful for all your replies, they are what is giving us strength right now.
melstevUK

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Reply with quote  #45 
keepsmiling,

Does she have any kind of a meal plan which provides the structure around her eating?

If so, it may help to have a seven-day plan of six boxes a day and then discuss what it will look like for the coming week.  Variety is not important at this stage - increases are.  

You can start with as little as adding half a digestive biscuit or 100ml of milk.

This worked very well for my d and me when she was at her sickest  - but I had no idea of what size of increases to make, and our psychiatrist had already decided that she would need IP, so on the first occasion we never had the chance to get going with it.  Since then, when she has gone back downhill she has come home and we have worked together to get a meal plan going and back up incrementally. However, that is when she has more insight about her illness.

Nevertheless this system worked well for us - even at the beginning when I knew nothing about an or FEAST, or that she was not choosing to be ill. We were just told by the psychiatrist to do this.  All the discussion about filling the boxes went on away from the table and before eating and I found if I gave her a choice of two things - her brain seemed to be 'trapped' and could not negotiate a way out.  You could try insisting on half a banana or 100ml of milk for example, which gives you the option to stand firm with no arguing or capitulating because there is a very clear outcome which you are aiming for.  

It is also worth stating clearly that if she does not learn to eat at home she will need to learn to eat in hospital.  You don't have to tell her about using the MHA to get her sectioned - but ensure you are very clear in your own minds that you will do this if needs be.

It is also worth quoting science at her.  I was recently speaking to one of our best known psychiatrists in Scotland and she spoke about a paper which came out recently which left everyone flabberghasted because it highlighted that underweight people were unhappier than overweight and even obese people up to a certain bmi threshold.  She wondered why they were surprised - when it should be pretty clear that a malnourished brain is not going to function well enough to be happy.  So you can tell d that her chances of being happy and feeling well are non-existent at this weight and that she will only start to feel well when her brain is nourished again (use the image of feeding her brain rather than her body as this may feel more attractive than the idea of weight gain).

Also, if there is even a glimmer of cooperation - focus in on that with comments which reflect this back to her.  'It is good that you have finally been able to take a small step to moving away from your illness' or similar.

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keepsmiling

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Reply with quote  #46 
D was on three meals and three snacks a day until H went back to work but when that happened, although I come home for lunch every day, D felt she couldn't eat snack even if it was prepared and left out for her (she is home alone during the day).  T told her to incorporate her morning snack into breakfast and her afternoon one into lunch so D is now on three meals and one snack a day.  I was not happy with the idea because I know how important it is for D to eat more regularly but we went with it as at least the calories are going in.

D has the same breakfast every day, three lunches that are 'safe' in rotation and seven evening meals, one for each day of the week.  We do still write a meal plan out but as the meals are all 'safe' I don't need to go into details as she knows what each one is - though she relies on the meal plan and couldn't cope if anything changed unless she had at least 24 hours notice.  There are also rules over preparation, for example only H can make her cocoa snack in the evening as she thinks I will 'cheat' her.  H was out yesterday so of course she refused my cocoa.

As you know, our changes will come into effect on Wednesday, after she has had a chance to talk to her T (that seemed fair as T might just persuade her to give the increases a go).  I have tried talking to D about increases but she just says she won't have any and that she won't eat them.  I will be putting them in regardless but is it worth trying to talk to her about them or just do it?  I am not sure I want to get into negotiations with her as this inevitably leads to anxiety so wonder if it would be better if we just took control and told her that we know what is best and she needs to trust us to feed her?  Also, do you think that increasing portion sizes or adding extra calories to her food would be better than adding in an extra item, such as a biscuit with her cocoa?  I am torn - if I add extra to what she currently eats then it could mean she eats nothing that mealtime, but equally if we add in an additional item it would be easy for her to eat / drink her normal things and leave that item.  So confused!!
mjkz

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Reply with quote  #47 
Quote:
So confused!!


It is hard to decide what to do isn't it?  I would not talk to her about the increases.  I would actually add things to her food, increase portion sizes, and add items.  She may leave the extra item but if you increase the portion sizes and add things to her food, you will still get in the extra calories.  I would also get hubby to start adding cream or oil to her cocoa at night.  I would follow her if she leaves the food and sit with her as long as it takes.  If she doesn't eat it, I would confiscate the computer and the crochet things (preferably prior to the meal) until she eats what you have given her.  Tell her she can get them back by eating what you are giving her but if she refuses, then I would hold onto those things until the next meal.  I would take the crocheting stuff to work with you so she can't get them during the day and take the power cord to the computer with you to work (can you tell I've had practice with this??!).

I don't know if this would work for you but we have cats.  I used to remind my daughter that the cats were family pets but that she was responsible for taking care of them.  With the dog, you might start reminding daughter that she is responsible for walking the dog so she really needs to get her weight up.  I found that my daughter was able to actually increase her weight for external things like being responsible for another living creature much more readily than for her own health.  If I had left it to her to get healthy for herself, she would still be stuck because she couldn't do it for her.  She could do it for the pets though.  Just throwing that out there.
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Reply with quote  #48 
keepsmiling,

' if I add extra to what she currently eats then it could mean she eats nothing that mealtime, but equally if we add in an additional item it would be easy for her to eat / drink her normal things and leave that item.'

I am not a successful refeeder who took total control of my d's eating so I am not the person to be able to advise on the best way forward.   However, if d is on her own during the day it is unlikely, while she is as ill as she is, if not impossible, for her to eat an unsupervised snack on her own.  And yet eating between meals is better if possible to avoid gaps of more than four hours between eating.  Are you able to take time off for a few days to supervise an added snack?  The T has certainly undermined you big time so it is essential that you get her on board with what you want to do.

mrjz has given you a way forward with any meal or food refusal - confiscate the crochets things before the meal and computer so that she cannot have them until she has eaten what is expected of her.  It sounds cruel but it is about finding whatever works to move things forward.

In your head you need to decide what increase you want to make and stick with it.  Parents often have 'mantras' which they use when things are difficult - for me it would be 'if you don't learn to eat at home you will have to eat in hospital so let's get going at home'.  

Others would advise you to take control and tell her to trust you to know what she needs - but if you take this line you need to build up your confidence that you can achieve this and that you can bring about change, and plan how to push through the obstacles.  It is hugely difficult when there has been a long period of no progress, but often one small change initially can lead to bigger ones.

Others will step in if you want to take this approach - but you need the T on board to understand what you are doing.  Explain that you will be taking decisions about what d eats so that she has less anxiety and ask T to back you with this.  This T would do better by not negotiating around food but helping d see how she is going to get back on with her life and supporting her anxiety through weight gain.  You have the right to ask her to do this.

 

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Kali

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Reply with quote  #49 
Hi Keepsmiling

I'm not sure if this can be helpful to you or not but during refeeding the food on my plate looks exactly like what my d's plate looks like. 

We have the same exact portions and the same exact food. I also stopped using the words "weight gain" and instead encouraged what I call "full nutrition". 

Since your d. has some "set" dinners, etc, perhaps you could describe what they are and perhaps we can let you know how to add more calories to what she has already eats to begin with? I would not tell her about the increases—just do it. Is she drinking a caloric drink with each meal? 

Her portions will also need to be increased but if you are eating the same amount perhaps that will make it easier for her to accept. Do you plate her food or does she serve herself? We spent a lot of time discussing correct portion sizes and the nutritionist backed me up there. I also encouraged more variety in her diet and started by creating a "recipe" binder. That had all the things she liked to eat. I told her that we would be adding 1 new dish a week and we did that for awhile until she became more flexible about choices. So if your d. is stuck eating the same 7 dinners every week perhaps you can do that this week. 

I have to admit that I never confiscated anything or gave her consequences for not eating. I did, however, make it clear that if she couldn't eat enough at home to weigh enough she would need to be in a higher level of care. I also talked to her about some of the things she would be able to do in the future in her life when she weighed enough and ate enough. I also made it clear that I would take her to the ER if she did not eat for 24 hours. I also tried to minimalize the unpleasantness at the table by playing music in the background, trying to make everything look as pretty as possible, with some fresh flowers in a vase, or trying to make the food look really attractive, using fresh herbs to make it taste better, trying to make interesting conversation at the table to take the focus off the plate of food she didn't want to eat. There was even a week before she went into residential care when things were really at their worst where I was so desperate that I bought small gifts for her each night and wrapped them up nicely and gave them to her before she ate just to take some of the tension away and try and make dinnertime somehow start off on a more positive note. 

Is it possible for your d. to attend some sort of day program where there would be meal support while you are at work? We did that for awhile. 

When she says no to you that is the ED voice speaking, not your real daughter. She is sharing with you what the ED is telling her to do. She doesn't know this now and she won't appreciate it until she is well, but she needs you and your h. to be soldiers for her now and stand up to that voice and calmly and firmly redirect it. 

Kali


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NELLY_UK

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Reply with quote  #50 
You can request a mental health assessment is done. Then at least they will
consider everything and there will be a social worker present seeing her low weight and how she is being 'cared for'. It may not work but you can formally request it
Happens anyway.

The Maudsley will need a referral for the second opinion on treatment
Unless things have changed. If you get to see them, you will immediately see how different their attitudes and approaches are from your current team. They all
'Get it' they dont make stupid comments and they empower the family.
Go for it tomorrow and cc the world and his wife in.
Get those drafts ready to press send at dawn! Then at 9 you can phone hopefuly and raise merry
Hell for the neglectful progressmade by your d under their care.

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NELLY D 18 bulimic since age 12, diagnosed in 2011. 20 months useless CAMHs,7 months great IP, home March 14..... more useless CAMHs.now an adult & no MH services are involved. I reached the end of my tether, tied a knot in it and am hanging on. Bulimia treatmentis in the dark ages in West Sussex.
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