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scaredmom

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Reply with quote  #1 
Hi an update on d,

Still standing a lot but walking more slowly after doctor told her to.
She is on olanzapine for only two weeks and I don't see less anxiety at all?(on 5 mg per day only for the last 5 days as an increase) She still stands all the time and says that she has been sitting! Is that ED talking (the denial). She does not participate in gym or recess or any extra curricular activities. She is allowed a15 min walk with parents per day at a slow pace. She is allowed 15 min at school to do "4 square" only if the teacher feels she has sat down through the day and only if she is NOT running while doing it,.

I have told her that she has to sit more and using the 2 min timer to do this. She, or should I say ED is fighting so hard today.
Distractions like TV or computer or games she will NOT do. I think ED is telling her screens, etc are BAD. I have told her that nothing bad will happen if she sits and that to heal she has to sit. I bear hugged her today and made her sit for two minutes. The whole time she is screaming and crying...
Any advice?

She is gaining very well. I guess I had hoped with more weight and the routine etc.. things would be better.

tina72

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Reply with quote  #2 
Hi scaredmom,
does it probably hurt when she sits? My daughter was so bony that she couldn´t sit comfortable. So we put her big pillows on every chair to sit better. Or does she compare "sit" with "eat"?
You are doing a good job if she is gaining wait. She will calm down. Stay on path!
Tina
scaredmom

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Reply with quote  #3 
hi tina72,
Thanks for the input. She is not too bony at all (thank goodness, she has only 3.5 kg to go!). I think it is a bit of OCD/ED coming out. She says she likes everyday to be the "same".  If I change a snack or order of something she says "why are you doing that mom?" "that's not what you are supposed to do".She does not articulate well what all of  that means. I think she is trying to hide some of her "rules". Do we need to figure out what their rules are?
She says odd things like " I am not as active as yesterday so I get to do XYZ", or "are you counting what I did/or did not do?" as if to make up the same levels of activity per day? I don't understand it.

toothfairy

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Reply with quote  #4 
Hi scaredmom,
She sounds like she has huge ED thoughts, it is all ED ED ED, AND ed's rules, from standing to calculating....
She sounds like she is absolutely tortured by ED and needs a lot more weight on.
For a kid her age to be still under by at least 3.5 kg iS a LOT.....she may well be under by a lot more than that , and she will need to keep gaining through to her adult years...
She cant help it , her brain is not functioning properly...
You do not need to figure the rules, you know she is being held hostage by her anorexia....the answer is FOOD IS HER MEDICINE..
Keep feeding her as much as possible....do not engage with anorexia, just push on with the feeding......

__________________
Son,DX with AN, (purging type) age 13 in October 2015 ,  (4 months immediate inpatient) , Then FBT at home since.and making progress every day. He is now in good recovery, and Living life to the full like a normal teen. We are not completely out of the woods yet, but we can see the light at the end of the tunnel, thanks to ATDT. Hoping to get him into full recovery and remission one day at a time.
scaredmom

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Reply with quote  #5 
Hi toothfairy,
I got it! What you say is confirming my thoughts. I keep thinking as she is gaining and looking so good that she must be so much better. But you are right 3.5 kg is a lot and her thoughts are what make me frightened.
I wonder now if the original weight goal is too little.
XX
toothfairy

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Reply with quote  #6 
Hi 
You will know by her state...probably.....have you read mamabears threads???
It is likely she will need an enormous amount of food and calories for years.
You are just at the begining of this, it is a marathon- not a sprint, keep feeding, she sounds like she is really suffering.
Get as many calories in now as possible, put huge amounts of butter and cream and canola oil in her food...
The faster  you can  get this weight up the easier it is going to get..

__________________
Son,DX with AN, (purging type) age 13 in October 2015 ,  (4 months immediate inpatient) , Then FBT at home since.and making progress every day. He is now in good recovery, and Living life to the full like a normal teen. We are not completely out of the woods yet, but we can see the light at the end of the tunnel, thanks to ATDT. Hoping to get him into full recovery and remission one day at a time.
scaredmom

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Reply with quote  #7 

Hi TF,
Yes I have read mamabear's threads and many more and I am beginning to  understand state and weight better. We are up to 4000+ cal per day and gained 2.1 kg in two weeks(4.63 pounds) that has been the biggest gain so far.  Thanks for the reminder that I am just at the beginning. Two months home and 1 month in hospital at diagnosis. Feels like an eternity. Getting tired...

I have put the HWC into the tub of yogurt, and butter on everything as well canola oil in all we cook. The suggestions here helped me to do that. Thanks for pushing me forward!

 

toothfairy

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Reply with quote  #8 
Great!!!!
Honestly, you will not believe the difference when she is a good weight for her, although it is a very long road, this is the worst part......the intense re-feeding.....but she will likely need enormous amounts of calories for years.... 

__________________
Son,DX with AN, (purging type) age 13 in October 2015 ,  (4 months immediate inpatient) , Then FBT at home since.and making progress every day. He is now in good recovery, and Living life to the full like a normal teen. We are not completely out of the woods yet, but we can see the light at the end of the tunnel, thanks to ATDT. Hoping to get him into full recovery and remission one day at a time.
Torie

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Reply with quote  #9 
Sorry, I don't understand if she is sitting for the two minutes you are timing.

If yes, can you increase it a bit?  Maybe 2 minutes 15 seconds?

If no, is it worth considering something like, "I see that 2 minutes might be too hard for you right now.  We're going to start with ___ instead"?

Maybe ask if she would prefer to sit on your lap or sit on the sofa or chair? 

I would bet your real d is dying to sit down, however much it makes ED howl.  Is there something she wants that you can require she do sitting down? Use her phone perhaps?  

Just trying to help brainstorm ideas for this difficult challenge. xx

-Torie

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"We are angels of hope, of healing, and of light. Darkness flees from us." -YP 
mamabear

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Reply with quote  #10 
Your d needs to sit.
In order to tackle this OCD/ED exercise rule I would do it cold turkey.

3 warnings and then a container of ensure is required. If ed is making her move and burn precious calories, then those cals need replacing.
YOU MUST FOLLOW THROUGH.

You will need to be with her a full 24 hours to institute this as ED will make her fight it.
We had ensure on the ceiling, walls, in our hair, in my Ds hair... but once it was made clear that constant standing would not be tolerated and cals would be replaced, it gave my real D the " excuse" she needed to sit. And she wanted SO badly to sit.

Weighted blankets help a ton. Hot baths, warm packs.
We watched 7 seasons of " Charmed". Games, puzzles, painting, clay, jewelry making...

I would sleep with her too. Bc if she can't move all day then ed may try at night.
I would quit the 15 min walks and the 15 min 4 square.
My d helped the art teacher.

You can't let an alcoholic have only 1 beer. You can't let an exercise compulsion ED kid have one walk.

I know it sounds harsh, but it worked for us My daughter NEEDED US TO TAKE CONTROL AWAY FROM THE ED.
And it doesn't matter what ed says or does. There is no logic to any of it so stop trying to figure it out. Bottom line, she needs to keep gaining and stop moving. Her only job is to eat what she is given.

You can do it. It's going to suck but it needs to happen. Ship out other kids if possible. Have hubby take other kids away if possible.

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Persistent, consistent vigilance!
mjkz

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Reply with quote  #11 
My daughter would do the same thing!!  We tried headphone with her favorite music on to help drown out the voices. 

Have you tried adding more food for each warning or time that she stands up?
deenl

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Reply with quote  #12 
Hi scaredmom,

This sounds pretty typical and will decrease as full nutrition is maintained over time.

My s cannot speak about anything to do with ED. But it's like their brains just get stuck in a groove. I didn't want to make the groove deeper so I would say things like 'Sorry, but I it's not good for your brain to discuss this' and I would change the subject or ignore it.

Others have been stronger in restricting OCD behaviours. I would suggest you use the search button on the top left of the screen. Read around and see which approach suits your situation best.

Warm wishes
D

__________________
Mother of 13yo son restricting but no body image issues; inpatient 6 wks Sept/Oct 2015 but lost weight! So emotionally destroyed they agreed to let him home to us. Stable but no progress. Medical hosp to kick start recovery for Feb 2016. Slowly and cautiously gaining weight at home and seeing signs of our real kid. Hovering around WR. Mood great, mostly. Building up hour by hour at school after 18 months at home.

2 years since first signs and life is good. Happy, first trip away in years, tons of variety in food, stepping back into social life. 

  • Swedish proverb: Love me when I least deserve it because that's when I need it most.
  • We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence Recovery, then, is not an act but a habit. Aristotle.
  • If the plan doesn't work, change the plan but never the goal. (but don't give up on the plan too soon, maybe it just needs a tweak or a bit more time and determination [wink] )
  • We cannot control the wind but we can direct the sail.
scaredmom

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Reply with quote  #13 

Thank you all,

We required her to sit for 30 minutes last night. She pretended she had to use the washroom and then sat there. We got her out of the bathroom and still required her to sit for the 30 minutes and she did it. She has been told no more walks and no more 4 square. She knows if she is not compliant, phone and time with friends will stop as wells as school. ( We have done this too and she gets it.)
Interesting, she says, if we pull her phone and other privileges, then what is the incentive to stop standing. Well, I told her that I will not talk to ED.
She listens to others in authority- our babysitter who helps in the mornings and her teacher  all have been told to be "firm mothers" and that she has to sit. She actually listens to them.

I have added more food to everything to take into account the extra activity, but to your point mamabear, knowing that ensure is coming no matter what may help her comply sooner. How long did it take to extinguish this behaviour? was it days or weeks? I am prepared and armed. Thank you!
I like the idea of getting everyone out of the house beforehand to tackle this problem head on. In the past, the other kids got upset and tried to help (did not work) , I don't want that for them. My D knows that I mean business in everything I discuss with her even non ED stuff. I have read many old posts from years ago and have found them helpful.
Wish me luck!

Love you all!

 

mjkz

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Reply with quote  #14 
Well done scaredmom.  We are going to have to find a new name for you!!! Last night was anything but scaredmom.  It took months for us to extinguish the behavior in my daughter but it was one week of absolute h*ll and then it did get better.  I found that I had to spend less and less time reminding her not to stand or exercise and when I did, she got 1-2 warnings and was able to comply.

Quote:
We watched 7 seasons of " Charmed".


Talk about taking one for the team [frown][biggrin] I hate that show!!
toothfairy

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Reply with quote  #15 
Hi 
Yes you are doing great.
I also tackled my Sons behaviours when my other Son was not in the room...

I am so proud of you ......xxxx

Another good one could be
"you can have your phone when you sit down" etc.......
You Rock MAMA

__________________
Son,DX with AN, (purging type) age 13 in October 2015 ,  (4 months immediate inpatient) , Then FBT at home since.and making progress every day. He is now in good recovery, and Living life to the full like a normal teen. We are not completely out of the woods yet, but we can see the light at the end of the tunnel, thanks to ATDT. Hoping to get him into full recovery and remission one day at a time.
scaredmom

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Reply with quote  #16 
Mkjz and TF,
thanks for the encouragement.
It was odd how she did not really resist the sitting. In fact yesterday I told her to sit for 45 minutes and she did it. I wonder if she is relieved to sit a bit. Also she knows she can have more privileges too with more sitting ie friends over and clothes shopping etc...
After the 45 min she was a bit agitated physically but not for long at all.
Crossing fingers and toes and arms and legs that today will be just as "easy".
One day at a time, one breath at a time and one bite at a time...

scaredmom

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Reply with quote  #17 
Oh TF I like that "you can have your phone when you sit down" that would work with her.
toothfairy

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Reply with quote  #18 
for sure she will be relieved, thats what sufferers report after they are well.....that they needed to be made stop the behaviours by the carer, as the voice and rules will not let them..
When you make her, she is able to counteract the voice with "my mom made me"....

__________________
Son,DX with AN, (purging type) age 13 in October 2015 ,  (4 months immediate inpatient) , Then FBT at home since.and making progress every day. He is now in good recovery, and Living life to the full like a normal teen. We are not completely out of the woods yet, but we can see the light at the end of the tunnel, thanks to ATDT. Hoping to get him into full recovery and remission one day at a time.
mjkz

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Reply with quote  #19 
Quote:
I wonder if she is relieved to sit a bit.


Same here.  My daughter was so relieved to be able to sit and not move all the time.  Plus with me telling her she had too, she was able to blame it on me and fight the voices in her head telling her what she had to do.
scaredmom

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Reply with quote  #20 

Hi we had a great evening. She was able to  sit for 45 minutes again and did it with no fuss at all! She was calm and was drawing with her dad. Then later the family was watching TV and she seemed interested, I told her she may "sit" with the family to watch as that was normal and that she was not allowed to stand and watch.. well she SAT for the last 30 min and then went to bed! No argument at all. She sat down well for the babysitter today and seemed more calm as well!!

Maybe this is a turning point for her. I really hope so. I know it may not last, but I am very happy today!

 

toothfairy

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Reply with quote  #21 
Horray Horray!!
__________________
Son,DX with AN, (purging type) age 13 in October 2015 ,  (4 months immediate inpatient) , Then FBT at home since.and making progress every day. He is now in good recovery, and Living life to the full like a normal teen. We are not completely out of the woods yet, but we can see the light at the end of the tunnel, thanks to ATDT. Hoping to get him into full recovery and remission one day at a time.
scaredmom

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Reply with quote  #22 
TF, thanks for cheering me on!
aloha

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Reply with quote  #23 
Hi
have had this with my now 15 ye old d
never sat at home but did in school
had all family held to random with threats of not eating if take phone off her and sometimes did exactly that so found it difficult to break.
She was hospitalised and only then realised that it was ok to rest she said the guilt of sitting that her e.d was making her feel lazy if she sat.
persist as you are doing we are over a year battling anorexia my d has gained weight but we on constant high alert to any behaviours associated with it. WE not out of woods yet.
Wish you all my support we fighting the same bully of the mind xx
A. a mother in arms.
mjkz

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Reply with quote  #24 
Quote:
Maybe this is a turning point for her. I really hope so. I know it may not last, but I am very happy today!


You should be!!  Well done Mom. Don't be surprised if it pops up again and again at different times but just keep reminding her to sit and requiring it.  She will need practice to fight the urge.
Foodsupport_AUS

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Reply with quote  #25 
You are doing a great job. For some things she just needs you to fight ED for her and require things to be done. For others her ED may fight harder. 

Something to look for is if she is compensating in some other way, for example hiding food, purging or other exercise at other times. Our kids often feel compelled to look for another loop hole if we close one. 

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D diagnosed restrictive AN June 2010 age 13.5. Weight restored July 2012. Relapse and now clawing our way back. Treatment: multiple hospitalisations and individual and family therapy.
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