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eternalhope

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Reply with quote  #26 
HateED, so sorry to hear how she has cut off communication with you and your H. I think you have a solid plan that leaves the door open for communication with her, even if you have to go hthrough the therapist now, and I am hoping the therapist can bring everyone together. Keeping her in treatment is the most important thing, and you’re managing to do that, so it sounds like you have a good plan. Great suggestions from mjkz and Tina. Best wishes. This disease is so vile and damaging to family relationships.
mjkz

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Reply with quote  #27 
My daughter has a trust account that her grandparents set up to help her with college and to give her some income.  It's not huge by any means but she could live independently on it if she watched how she managed her money.  She was the only person on the account and when I became her guardian and then conservator, I put myself on the account and she now can't draw anything out without my signature.  I did that in the same kind of circumstances you are in now so if you can empty the money from the account or block access, I would say do it. 

One thing you could do is suggest to the therapist if she calls to get money about the apartment is that you want your daughter to use her own money.  If she has the money, then why not have her use it for her own treatment?  I would empty most of the account before I did that and put in just enough for her to pay for the apartment each week.  She could still leave but without money where would she go?  I don't regret taking over my daughter's trust account and neither does she.  She realizes now that it was the only way to get through to her that I meant business.

One thing that you might have happen (happened with my daughter) is they tried to find out family my daughter could go live with because she wanted nothing to do with me.  It wasn't an issue with us because none of the family including her father was willing to have her live with them but you might want to have a conversation with other family members who might be willing to consider taking her in. 
mjkz

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Reply with quote  #28 
How did it go today?
HateEDwithApassion

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Reply with quote  #29 
Hi,

Thanks for checking in.

Things are about the same, I would say. Maybe a little thawing. She did participate in a family session which I was unsure if she would. She's texting me a bit here and there, but still keeping a distance. She has expressed that she's not doing well mentally. It concerns me that after 5 weeks, she still feels as depressed and disordered as ever. That isn't improving even with eating meal plan completely. It may be because she can't use her disordered behaviors to manage depression and anxiety there so they are full-blown. I don't know.

I try to say things will get better or I'm sorry it's hard or I am proud of you, but I think all of it goes in one ear and out the other because she's can't see any sliver of light at the end of the tunnel. I believe she will be well at some point - but I feel sometimes like she's given up.

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17 yo D. Diagnosed in July 2013. W/R in Sept. 2013 and has remained so. Roller coaster on and off since, mainly with ED under control but co-morbid depression and other negative coping mechanisms making our life hell. Trusting in God for daily strength and wisdom.
Torie

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Reply with quote  #30 
Things are about the same, I would say. Maybe a little thawing. She did participate in a family session which I was unsure if she would. She's texting me a bit here and there, but still keeping a distance. She has expressed that she's not doing well mentally.

Yay!  That sounds like a really good improvement!

It concerns me that after 5 weeks, she still feels as depressed and disordered as ever. That isn't improving even with eating meal plan completely. It may be because she can't use her disordered behaviors to manage depression and anxiety there so they are full-blown. I don't know.

Hard to guess.  It might also be the black-and-white thinking,  It seemed like my d was so miserable she wanted to die, and until finally she was fine.  Nothing in between as far as I could see.

I try to say things will get better or I'm sorry it's hard or I am proud of you, but I think all of it goes in one ear and out the other because she's can't see any sliver of light at the end of the tunnel. 

I'm sure your real d hears you.  ED won't let her acknowledge it, though.

I believe she will be well at some point - but I feel sometimes like she's given up.

It's okay if she has given up.  My d didn't want to get better in the first place - one of the most valuable things I learned here is that we can drag them back to health whether they want to make the journey or not.  Whether they believe it possible or not.  You are her rock - that's what matters.

Thanks for the update.  So glad to hear her determination to shut you out is showing some nice cracks.

Keep swimming. xx

-Torie

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mjkz

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Reply with quote  #31 
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It may be because she can't use her disordered behaviors to manage depression and anxiety there so they are full-blown. I don't know.


That would be a very good guess.  I don't quite know how to say this but what I've found with kids who have been sick for awhile is that they get used to things not working.  They get used to failing and so they stop trying.  You use very short term concrete rewards because they need and want instant gratification and the ED gives that to them.  Being healthy doesn't and what we see as winning is in their eyes failing.  I think it makes it so hard for them to have to work towards something long-term when starving or purging gives instant gratification.  They want to feel better right now and forget that these are skills that have to be practiced to be good at and for them to work.

At some point I had to really push my daughter to do something other than just eat meals and gain weight.  We tell our kids that is their only job yet with the older kids who struggle with premorbids, they can get complacent in just doing the very minimum and expect to feel better.  Nothing in life that is worth anything is that easy and it really took a kick up the backside when my daughter was in a similar place to push her to do more than just eat and gain weight.  I had to start telling her that I expected more of her and not just validating her feelings.  When she would tell me that nothing was working, I'd tell her straight out then that she needed to keep practicing and that it was a fake it until you make it situation.  Doing the same thing that you've always done is not going to get you anything but what you already have.  Sometimes I think this is an area where FBT fails kids like yours and mine.

I'm sure people are going to read that and think how could you tell your daughter that or how could you expect more than her best?  Well when her best was not really her best and just wasn't cutting it anymore, I had to do something.  Ever notice how she complains about being depression and anxious all the time but won't try anything new?  That used to drive me nuts!!!  I suffer from depression and what really worked for me was volunteering and seeing people who truly were worse off than I was.  It took me out of my "poor me" mindset and really called on me to do more and show compassion.  I required that of my daughter and I really saw a huge difference.  I remember one day she spent at a homeless kitchen feeding people. She came out, got into the car and said "Wow.  After seeing that, I can't believe I waste so much time feeling fat."  I said yeah, sad isn't it?  Just think of how much time and energy you waste trying to avoid food and things like that when all those people in there have no clue if they are going to eat tomorrow or where they are going to sleep.

I'm sure this sounds uncaring but when you have a 24 year-old (emotionally really about a 9 year-old) having a total emotional meltdown over a granola bar, you got to do something.  I really pushed my daughter very hard and stopped validating feelings that had no basis in truth.  Depression and anxiety are normal in life.  Get used to it.  You got to eat six times a day.  You can try to make it much more complicated that that and kick up a fuss but you are still going to eat six times a day and be a healthy weight.  Get used to it.  You can waste your life feeling sorry for yourself and being miserable to be around.  Get used to being alone because it will be your way of life.  Do something different if you want a different result.

Again, this was after my daughter had had years of therapy, coping skills, over 30 hospital stays at most of the best facilities across the country, after we tried every single solitary thing including hypnosis, mom not being the food police, mom being the food police, alternative treatment, evidence based treatment-you name it, we tried it.  This is obviously not a way to approach someone who has not had a lot of treatment or someone who is much younger.  We're talking treatment overdosed kids who have to be dragged kicking and screaming into adulthood.
HateEDwithApassion

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Reply with quote  #32 
My D signed an AMA today. She'll be held until Monday, but then plans to leave. She has several hundred dollars in her checking account, but that's it. She can likely book a plane ticket or a bus ticket, if she chooses to, but then will be out of money. Has no car of her own. Warned family members that the best chance for recovery is to tell her they love her, but she can't stay with them if she comes home. They agree.

Now we wait. Other than a few texts telling me to F-off etc. she's cut off communication again. I won't get into the details of what led to this other than to say we learned she's been not active in her therapy and quit her meds secretly again. I told her team this, and she became furious. Every time the ED doesn't get what it wants, she threatens us and cuts of communication. Will she ever ever want to be well? Will she ever stop fighting us?

I know some of you have had to make this hard decision, so you can understand the fear and the sadness. She's my little girl. I worry about her decisions and where she'll end up if she follows through. But I know that she can't come live at home like this. We had a good call a few days ago, so this has surprised us and blindsided me. If you pray, I would welcome it. If you have wise words of comfort, I would take those too. [smile]

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17 yo D. Diagnosed in July 2013. W/R in Sept. 2013 and has remained so. Roller coaster on and off since, mainly with ED under control but co-morbid depression and other negative coping mechanisms making our life hell. Trusting in God for daily strength and wisdom.
Torie

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Reply with quote  #33 
Oh dang.  I wish I had some magic fairy dust to blow your way.

Ed is such a creep.  I hope you get to see your real d again soon.  Sucks so much that she is being held hostage my this miserable terrorist.

You're doing all the right things.  Stay strong.

Please remember that we're with you in spirit. xx

-Torie

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"We are angels of hope, of healing, and of light. Darkness flees from us." -YP 
mjkz

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Reply with quote  #34 
HateEd, nothing to say other than you are not alone and this will be a very hard trying time.  Stay strong in your resolve and know that those of us who have been in similar situations are out here sending you prayers and thoughts.
melstevUK

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Reply with quote  #35 
"we learned she's been not active in her therapy"

I always feel very uncomfortable when there is any mention of therapists of any kind stating that the patient 'is not motivated', 'is not engaging' and like here 'has not been active'.

While I feel your frustration with your d - at the same time, if the therapy on offer isn't working - where is the patient-centred approach which WOULD work?  This feels so much like patient-blaming to me.  

I don't know what to say or to advise.

She may not be answering texts, but I would probably send a text saying that, while you respect that she feels unhappy and that things are not going to plan, you are deeply unhappy that she is going to sign out and put herself into such a risky and vulnerable situation while so unwell and while having absolutely no plans or money to keep herself safe.  You might just 'get through' to her.  At least you will be expressing your love and concern.

If there was just one clinician who was really vested in her recovery, I am sure it would make a difference.  Our kids need clinicians who really reach them on some level too.  They are quick to pick up on anyone who may be going through the motions and not genuinely committed.

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hopefulmama

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Reply with quote  #36 
I am so sorry...my heart hurts for you.  It sounds like by contacting family members you have tried to shut down any avenues that might be available to her.  I am praying for a change of heart before Monday. 


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Enjoying my 21 year-old daughter's achievement of active recovery that was made possible by the resources and education I found on this forum.

Don't give up hope!
Kali

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Reply with quote  #37 
Hi HateEDwithaPassion,

My understanding is that a responsible ED treatment center such as ERC will try and redirect someone who is trying to sign out AMA before they actually leave. I remember when my d. was in treatment that it was explained to us that technically she could ask to sign herself out AMA since she was 18, but that they would do everything possible in that situation to encourage her to stay. That is why they typically have a few days, in this case, Monday, before it happens. Can you phone them and discuss and let them know that your families wishes are for her to stay in treatment and you are concerned that she may not be safe if she leaves AMA? 

Also, since she won't talk to you right now, can you get in touch with any of the team she had at home who she may have clicked with, and ask them to reach out to her to try and motivate her to stay the course in treatment? 

Is there anyone in the family who she will talk with and if so could you reach out to them and again ask them to contact her and try to encourage her to stay?

What is her current weight at the moment, is she weight restored or close to it? Sometimes as they approach weight restoration the anxiety increases and can prompt this sort of incident.

So sorry you are going through this. And sorry for your daughter, who somewhere inside her must wish that she could lead a life that she will be able to enjoy and thrive in.

Kali



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eternalhope

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Reply with quote  #38 
HateED, I’m so sorry to hear how tough it’s been. I will be thinking of and praying for your d this weekend. Take care of yourselves.
HateEDwithApassion

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Reply with quote  #39 
Saturday update - She did a family session call with the therapist and my H yesterday afternoon. Would not include me. She was mad and resistant and the call went nowhere. She blamed us for making her homeless when she comes home, and the therapist corrected her and said she has a place to stay there but is choosing to leave. That is not on her parents. The team is very direct with her and straight-forward.

She texted with her flight arrival for Monday. Sigh. Looks like she is following through. She has no car, little money, we've talked to her team to reason with her. She is texting with family members, but she seems shut down to any reason from anyone. My husband is out of town for work early next week and he must go, so it's just me home when all this goes down, and she's not speaking to me.

So, what are the options? Let her land and fend for herself, knowing she has no money and no friends I'm aware of, so she may be sitting in the airport or who knows where? Do we allow a family member to take her in for the night? Do we give her money for a hotel so she's at least not on the streets and freezing and unsafe? Do we allow her to come here on the condition that's it's temporary? Do we tell her she can come here if she abides by our contract and give her a chance to do that - then make her find a place if she doesn't? 

I'm absolutely heartbroken that she's got such a hard heart and that she is so entrenched with this illness. Tough love is really difficult - and I'll have to do it alone next week. 

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17 yo D. Diagnosed in July 2013. W/R in Sept. 2013 and has remained so. Roller coaster on and off since, mainly with ED under control but co-morbid depression and other negative coping mechanisms making our life hell. Trusting in God for daily strength and wisdom.
deenl

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Reply with quote  #40 
Hi HateED,

So, so sorry you are going through such a hellish period. I am reading a book at the moment to help me deal with an extended family member and although I haven't finished it, I'm finding it helpful. I wonder if it might also give you some ideas for dealing with the emotional onslaught to come. I can't remember if your daughter has an official diagnosis but she most definitely suffers from extreme emotional dysregulation which the book addresses. Obviously, it works better if the patient is on board but that is not the case for you or for me. I just want to be able to respond in ways that don't make things worse, may improve things over time and help me stay emotionally sane. It is DBT based so does require a lot of effort by the loved ones. I have to admit that I am tired, resentful that it has to be me making all the effort and sick to death that some of my relationships are more like therapist / patient that loved ones. But c'est la vie. It is what it is. If I don't take the lead then I will lose out on the relationships totally and that is not what I want. Anyway after all that rambling the book is Overcoming Borderline Personality Disorder, A Family Guide for Healing and Change by Valerie Porr.

Warm wishes and a big hug,
D

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2015 12yo son restricting but no body image issues, no fat phobia; lost weight IP! Oct 2015 home, stable but no progress. Medical hosp to kick start recovery Feb 2016. Slowly and cautiously gaining weight at home and seeing signs of our real kid.

May 2017 Hovering around WR. Mood great, mostly. Building up hour by hour at school after 18 months at home. Summer 2017 Happy, first trip away in years, tons of variety in food, stepping back into social life. Sept 2017, back to school full time for the first time in 2 years. Happy and relaxed, just usual non ED hassles. 

  • Swedish proverb: Love me when I least deserve it because that's when I need it most.
  • We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence Recovery, then, is not an act but a habit. Aristotle.
  • If the plan doesn't work, change the plan but never the goal. (but don't give up on the plan too soon, maybe it just needs a tweak or a bit more time and determination [wink] )
  • We cannot control the wind but we can direct the sail.
mjkz

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Reply with quote  #41 
HateED, I would say at this point if you let her come home, she is not going to believe anything you tell her.  Once she is home if she refuses to bide by your contract, you have the added stress of making her move out and it doesn't sound like she is willing to follow anything you say.  Given that you are alone next week, I would say stand your ground and let her find her own place.  Everyone has made it clear to her what will happen if she leaves so I think at this point you can only follow through with what you have set up.

My daughter did something similar and when she texted me the flight information, I sent her a very short text telling her to let whoever was picking her up and giving her a place to stay to know and have a good flight.  I had tried everything at that point and nothing was getting through.  It was really truly a wake up call for her and that time she chose to stay.  There were other times she didn't but I think you need to draw a line and stand by it or you will never get anywhere with her.

You might feel alone but you aren't.  We've all had to make these really hard decisions.  We are there with you in thought and spirit.
HateEDwithApassion

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Reply with quote  #42 
Thanks for your replies - deenl, I have some books on BPD and have taken DBT, so I'm familiar with the skills, but definitely need to brush up on using them. Yes - she's been working with a DBT therapist for a year after a skills group in which she didn't really engage. 

After some texts back and forth between her and my H in which she learned that we would not release her money if she flew home, would not have her come live with us, and would be stopping all financial support including her phone, she issued a threat that living on the streets will certainly increase the risk of her suicide, and he should be ready to live with those repercussions. 

Needless to say, because she is so unstable, we took the threat seriously and called her team. She's been taken to the ER for psych evaluation and possible hold. She's furious and never wants to see her family again, but at least she's safe.

We are truly at our wits end. We see no progress with her mental state. Of course, when she starts and stops meds like they are Skittles, your brain will be messed up. 

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17 yo D. Diagnosed in July 2013. W/R in Sept. 2013 and has remained so. Roller coaster on and off since, mainly with ED under control but co-morbid depression and other negative coping mechanisms making our life hell. Trusting in God for daily strength and wisdom.
mjkz

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Reply with quote  #43 
Good job.  I was just thinking about you and your situation, signed on to ask why ERC wasn't putting her in a higher level of care given her instability, her impulsiveness and that fact that she stopped her meds!!!  Glad you took her threats seriously and they are acting.  As hard as it is, it is truly what she needs.  She has to be able to trust what you say and that you'll do what you say you will.

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Reply with quote  #44 
Of course she is furious with you, but you did the right thing. 
Threatening suicide in response to to not supporting her illness and illness related behaviour is a part of the illness, but of course if you cave you are allowing her illness to continue to manipulate and control. I hope they hold her, it will give you an extra feeling of safety. 

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D diagnosed restrictive AN June 2010 age 13.5. Weight restored July 2012. Relapse and now clawing our way back. Treatment: multiple hospitalisations and individual and family therapy.
eternalhope

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Reply with quote  #45 
You did the right thing. I’m so sorry that you are going through this. But have hope. People do recover. At family days, I sat with an older couple who were there for their second daughter. Their first daughter fought AN for 10 years. They were told she would never have children. She did recover. She graduated, got a job, married and has 2 children now. They had seen some terrible lows, where she almost died. They got through it. You will get through this. Hang in there. Thinking and praying for your family.
HateEDwithApassion

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Reply with quote  #46 

She did not stay in the hospital. They did not hold her. Sent back to residential. She refused to go to strict level- swore st the attending doctor and cops came to do a wellness check. Talked her into staying. They said since she’s there voluntarily, there is nothing they can do if she insists on leaving and hospital didn’t hold her. She called us blaming us for ruining her life, etc. She insists she’s still leaving Monday and has no hope for recover so why bother anymore.
Her voice was flat- like talking to a robot or evil spirit. No reasoning with her. We'll see what happens today but she may becoming back whether we agree or not. I’m afraid in her state what she’ll do.

__________________
17 yo D. Diagnosed in July 2013. W/R in Sept. 2013 and has remained so. Roller coaster on and off since, mainly with ED under control but co-morbid depression and other negative coping mechanisms making our life hell. Trusting in God for daily strength and wisdom.
HateEDwithApassion

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Reply with quote  #47 
Btw - thanks all. You don’t have to reply - these are getting tiring. It’s just cathartic to write. I’m tired and scared and can’t sleep. So I write. Thank you for your advice.
__________________
17 yo D. Diagnosed in July 2013. W/R in Sept. 2013 and has remained so. Roller coaster on and off since, mainly with ED under control but co-morbid depression and other negative coping mechanisms making our life hell. Trusting in God for daily strength and wisdom.
mjkz

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Reply with quote  #48 
Ugh.  What a night in the HateED family.  At least she stayed there now and who knows what the coming days will bring.  Hopefully they will see how impulsive she is and try to keep her longer.  If not, hopefully she has seen that coming home is not an option and she will spend some time thinking over her next moves.  As hard as it is, I would still hold strong to not letting her move back home.  You have other kids to protect at this point as well as yourselves.  I think you sent a very strong message that playing the suicide card will be taken seriously and she will get evaluated.  My fear is given that she is not speaking to any of you, what will she do if she moves back home?  You aren't going to have much leverage to get her to do anything.

I'm sorry you are in such a bad spot.  You have done truly everything you can.  What does hubby think about her moving back home? Is he supporting not letting her move back since that has been what you both have been telling her since Day 1 at ERC?  Is ERC willing to put a hold on her and try to get her court ordered to stay in treatment?  They weren't with my daughter but they've already done more with your daughter than they did with mine so I remain ever hopeful for your sake!!
Torie

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Reply with quote  #49 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HateEDwithApassion
Her voice was flat- like talking to a robot or evil spirit.


Ugh ugh ugh.  It is so creepy the way their brains are hijacked by ED.  The only good thing I can think of about that is at least it is a good reminder you are talking to ED and not to your real d.

Such a horrid choice when you are desperate to help your real d, but unwilling to aid and abet ED, since they are sharing the same brain.

I agree with mjkz that your best bet is to hang tough.

Thinking of you.  xx

-Torie

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iHateED

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Reply with quote  #50 
So sorry to read of your latest updates.  Sending prayers and hugs to you and your family.  Please take some time to care for yourself too.  This illness sucks! 
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