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EC_Mom

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Reply with quote  #1 
My 12-yr-old was violent and venomous during refeeding, alternating with being needy and clingy. Two years later, she eats normally and is mostly normal. She is still an anxious person but manages mostly well. 

In the last two months she has become so terribly nasty and awful. I think this is 'normal' for teen girls (now 14), but I'm not sure how to handle it. We had, post-ED, a pretty good relationship but since summer she has been rude and hostile, all the time, to everyone (at home, outside the home she's fine).

What do moms of normal kids do? I've lost a sense for how normal parents treat normal kids who are rude and hostile teens. Am I supposed to punish, or be supportive, or try to find out why (the reasons are always changing)? 

I guess for those of you in the refeeding trenches you can read this as a "story of hope"--where the biggest concern is hostility and rudeness but the kid is healthy. 
deenl

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Reply with quote  #2 
Hi EC Mom,

I haven't had that problem myself (yet) but the thought that popped into my head was to get together with your husband (if that is your situation) and decide boundaries, what is acceptable and what is not. Then decide a scale of interventions ranging from calmly stating the behaviour is unacceptable and requesting an apology to grounding (or whatever suits your situation) I would be inclined not to have endless detailed rules but things like speak to each with respect. You will know what suits your situation best. Share and be clear with your daughter, follow through, consider modifying a contract to become a behaviour contract.

Just a brain dump so take what you like and ignore the rest.

Warm wishes,
D

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2015 12yo son restricting but no body image issues, no fat phobia; lost weight IP! Oct 2015 home, stable but no progress. Medical hosp to kick start recovery Feb 2016. Slowly and cautiously gaining weight at home and seeing signs of our real kid.

May 2017 Hovering around WR. Mood great, mostly. Building up hour by hour at school after 18 months at home. Summer 2017 Happy, first trip away in years, tons of variety in food, stepping back into social life. Sept 2017, back to school full time for the first time in 2 years. Happy and relaxed, just usual non ED hassles. 

  • Swedish proverb: Love me when I least deserve it because that's when I need it most.
  • We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence Recovery, then, is not an act but a habit. Aristotle.
  • If the plan doesn't work, change the plan but never the goal. (but don't give up on the plan too soon, maybe it just needs a tweak or a bit more time and determination [wink] )
  • We cannot control the wind but we can direct the sail.
Torie

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Reply with quote  #3 
Hmmm ... great question.

I think the idea is that you are supposed to model the behavior / speech you would like to see, and sometimes tell her explicitly what you are looking for.  For example, "I'm sorry you don't like the new dress I bought for you.  I would feel more like trying again sometime if you thanked my for my effort instead of yelling at me, though."  Or something.

The other thing is to remember that most of them grow out of it.  

So glad you're experiencing normal teen behavior.  (Well, you know what I mean.) xx

-Torie

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"We are angels of hope, of healing, and of light. Darkness flees from us." -YP 
Honey_Badger

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Reply with quote  #4 
I have found this book to be very helpful:

https://www.amazon.com/Yes-Your-Teen-Crazy-Without/dp/0936197447


Kali

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Reply with quote  #5 
Hi EC mom,

Sorry you are going through this...we are almost out of the teen years with two kids and I don't actually think that nastiness is "normal teen behavior". In our experience, nastiness was ED behavior.

I'd say, have a chat with your daughter in a non-confrontational manner. Ask her if anything is wrong first. Let her know that home is a safe haven and a place where peacefulness and cooperation are valued. Hostility and rudeness are not ways she would want others to behave towards her, because it would be hurtful, right? It is ok to let our kids know when they are behaving in ways that hurt others or cause distress, and to discuss why that may be and how they can choose to behave in more caring and considerate ways. 

We can lead by example by demonstrating how problem solving, talking about issues, and sharing ideas about how to make home life better for everyone and improve relationships are all important skills.

Good luck! Hope things will improve.

warmly,

Kali
former nasty teen [smile]







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OneToughMomma

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Reply with quote  #6 
Dear ECMom,

Firstly, I trust you've made extra-sure her weight and eating are good.

My non-ED d is 16 and sometimes is a bit like this.  I do think that it is a tendency in SOME girls as they mature to become hostile, entitled, etc.

I do not, however, think we have to tolerate it as parents.  In fact, it is our job to set boundaries and try to support them in appropriate behaviours.  In the outside world, we have consequences if we are rude to teachers, fellow students, or bosses.

I agree with the advice already given. I reckon-- Make a plan with your parenting partner if you have one.  Speak to d when she is calm.  Tell her what you expect and what she can expect if she is rude.  And then the hard part, follow through!

My d knows I'll take her phone from her, turn around and go back home, or whatever is appropriate if she takes out life's little frustrations on me.  She is learning and is now very contrite when her temper gets the better of her. (as am I when I lose it!)

If it's any consolation, a dear friend's daughter treated her abominably during adolescence.  She has now matured into the most wonderful, kind and responsible 18 year old I have ever had the pleasure of knowing. 

Keep going--you're doing great!
xoOTM 

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D in and out of EDNOS since age 8. dx RAN 2013. WR Aug '14. Graduated FBT June 2015 at 18 yrs old. [thumb]
doubletrouble

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Reply with quote  #7 
We went through something very similar with our twin DDs. Violent and fought us every minute during refeeding. Then irritable and angry later. Anxiety often demonstrates itself as irritability and crankiness. Is she well behaved at school and with others but a hellcat with you? That is actually a good sign as they know you are the safe person that hey save it up for. My daughters refused to go to therapy, but I went myself and learned techniques to deal with them and frankly endure this period of time trying to keep my sanity and our family intact. As time went on and my girls were 16, they took a Psychology class and realized they suffered from anxiety so they were willing to go to a Psychiatrist, and we were able to get them medication which helped some. I am happy to tell you that they grew out of this awful behavior and now they are absolutely wonderful to be with and we are so close again. Hang in there. This too shall pass.
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Mom to beautiful ID twin daughters both diagnosed with AN May 2012 at 13, now fully recovered from ED. "Necessity, mother of invention." Plato
Kali

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Reply with quote  #8 
EC mom...could it be that your daughter is having what I call low blood sugar moments? What times of day does she tend to get nasty, and how long since she has eaten when that happens? Can you try to pay attention to that and see? My h. and both kids get really "hangry" if they have not eaten and it can be really unpleasant. I remember, with my son (non-ed) especially, telling him that when he got like that it would be a good idea for him to sit down and drink a glass of juice and then see how he felt. And that he could recognize it himself and do something about it. He reported that he felt better if he had a little snack and he learned to do something about it as time went on and he matured. Even someone who eats normally can have this happen to them. It was the cause of many tantrums though when he was younger, before I realized what was going on. I used to have the day care center give him an additional snack at 4pm so that he did not have a meltdown on the way home! My d. too can recognize it now and when it happens she can do something about it. It happened the other day; it was not all that long after she had had lunch but a juice box and taking ten minutes to sit down and relax helped her. When she was very ill of course she was not eating and we had hangry ALL THE TIME. 

Let us know how it goes!

Kali


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ed_newbie

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Reply with quote  #9 
My d was also 12 when diagnosed and is now 14.  She has also recovered nicely from an eating disorder standpoint, but much like your d is prone to outbursts and anger (non-food related).  

My belief is that lingering depression and anxiety play a major role in this behavior. Now that she has been at a good weight for about a year and her brain has had the time it needs to heal, we have started seeing a new therapist to get some help.  The timing is critical since she just transitioned from a public middle school to a private high school (= stress!!!).  My goal with therapy is to help her develop some positive coping skills and to have an objective, third person "reality check" when her thinking becomes irrational/distorted when things get tough.

I try to be firm with my expectations of how I expect her to treat me and the rest of the family but also to be compassionate since I know she is struggling to manage her emotions.  She sometimes feels bad and actually apologies to me after an especially bad rant.  

Just taking it one day at a time!

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"Lineage, personality and environment may shape you, but they do not define your full potential."    Mollie Marti  

ed_newbie

14 yr old d diagnosed with AN late December 2015 at the age of 12 after a 23 lb weight loss during prior 3 months. Started FBT/Maudsley at home on Christmas Eve with support from amazing local nutritionist specializing in ED and trained in FBT. WR Feb 2016 and now chasing growth and taking one meal at a time.
Torie

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Reply with quote  #10 
Another thing to consider - is she on any medication?  I had completely forgotten about this, but when I was a teen, I was prescribed some kind of anti-anxiety meds - by the dermatologist of all people.  My boyfriend said it made me cranky and unpleasant.  I didn't believe him at first - I couldn't see it.  But he kept telling me to please stop taking the meds.  Apparently my pleasantness index went up considerably as soon as I stopped.  Just a thought.  xx

-Torie

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"We are angels of hope, of healing, and of light. Darkness flees from us." -YP 
EC_Mom

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Reply with quote  #11 
Ok, so it turns out there is some big stress I didn't know about, boys, etc. She is actually quite distressed and feels like a failure. Now this is strangely comforting to me because although she feels so disappointed in herself she isn't restricting, she is "simply" being nasty and rude. Thanks for all the suggestions. I do know this will pass, there will be other boys, but she doesn't see that yet, of course.
Mamaroo

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Reply with quote  #12 
I have the same problem, but with d's sister. So glad to know I'm not alone in this 😁. I also think it has to do with anxiety and will follow all your suggestions. Thanks for the tips! This is why I love this forum.
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D became obsessed with exercise at age 9. Started eating 'healthy' at age 9.5. Restricting couple of months later. IP for 2 weeks at age 10. Slowly refed for a year and WR at age 11. Challenging fear foods now.
aloha

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Reply with quote  #13 
having similar outbursts with my 15 D. but more in the way of when she is refused to go somewhere or do something with friends which may interfere with her diet plan she will get so annoyed and violent,
currently recoviering from AN seems very slow nearly two years of her illness which has taken an enormous toll on the rest of the family,as she shouting and nasty and will not comply with meals if not get her way,

currently out of hosp since Mid june after seven weeks i.p, back to school which is good but admits struggling.

my thoughts are with all in same place as our family, her weight is up yesterday but mind set very much not ready and no sign of my daughter just yet.

being a modern day Teen combined with AN an explosive cocktail of emotions!

trying all calm and compassionate measures [crazy].

best to u
A.

mjkz

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Reply with quote  #14 
I always required my daughter to rein in the outbursts and kept that steady no matter where she was in refeeding or how sick she was.  If she was in a treatment program, they don't allow patients to be abusive towards staff and if she can hold it together in public then she can do it at home too.

One pivotal movement for us was when we were in a support group (parents and sufferers).  One of the other girls went off on her parents in a full blown meltdown and the rest of us just watched.  The parents said and did nothing and just took all the abuse.  Even the therapist leading the group was kind of stunned at their reaction.  Finally she started helping them help their daughter regain some control (they were upset because they felt they weren't be compassionate by trying to help her regain some emotional control).  It was embarrassing to be honest and when we got into the car later my daughter asked me if she had ever been like that.  I was honest and said at times but this is why I asked her to go to her room until she regained some control.  She just looked at me and said how happy she was that I'd not allowed her to become like that other girl.

For me it was all about consistency and keeping the rules the same.  If she was not going to eat because she didn't get her own way, then we needed to deal with that and she still needed to treat everyone with respect.  My daughter too went through a phase where she had to have everything exactly as she needed it or she wouldn't eat.  The problem was you can't sustain that and she has to learn to eat no matter what. 
bccka5

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Reply with quote  #15 
I know how tricky it is to decipher between ED and other emotions but your D is far enough past recovery that you should correct bad behavior. Even if she was in recovery, there comes a point where you don't allow certain behaviors; small bites, pushing food around, etc. It's the same thing.

I recently read Dr. Lisa Damour's book, "Untangled" and it was extremely helpful. She explains the 7 transitions that adolescent girls go through and how to react and guide them. For me, half the battle was feeling like it's normal.

This book is really refreshing because she is such a positive voice for teen girls. I really feel like I understand my 16 year old better and am less frustrated when she pushes her boundaries. In fact, Damour explains how girls have to have battles with their parents to teach them effective communication and reasoning skills. (She is far more eloquent in explaining it then I am.) She's not FBT so be forewarned. I don't necessarily agree with all of her comments on Ed's but she remains fairly neutral and isn't offensive. https://www.drlisadamour.com/untangled/



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Daughter diagnosed with anorexia at 12 in 2013 without having any image issues/concerns about calories or exercise. Hospitalized - 3 days. FBT at home along with outpatient therapy - 16 weeks. Recovered/weight restored - 4 years. Still gaining and growing but has no hunger signs yet.  
Mamaroo

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Reply with quote  #16 
Hi, I found this blog yesterday and thought of you: https://www.theshabbycreekcottage.com/how-we-erased-teenage-entitlement.html

It's about a mum's radical approach to rectify her daughter's rude behaviour. It reminds me a bit of refeeding. Quite a different way of dealing with it, might give it a go myself if the bad behaviour returns.

Best wishes

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D became obsessed with exercise at age 9. Started eating 'healthy' at age 9.5. Restricting couple of months later. IP for 2 weeks at age 10. Slowly refed for a year and WR at age 11. Challenging fear foods now.
EC_Mom

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Reply with quote  #17 
Hmmm, I read that and found it sounded too unkind and harsh. ED is an illness, a brain disorder. Entitlement is awful but not quite the same, in my view.
mjkz

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Reply with quote  #18 
I agree EC-Mom but used some of the same tactics to get food in.  Bad behavior should have consequences.  It certainly does when you are an adult.  Perhaps entitlement is the wrong thing to call it but no matter where it comes from, unfortunately we're still stuck dealing with it.

I guess this is what mom meant when she said she hoped I had kids someday who were just like me[biggrin]
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