User’s Guide | Rules | Contact a Moderator | Registration or Login Problems? | Eating Disorders Learning Center | F.E.A.S.T.



Custom Search of F.E.A.S.T. and Forum Content:
Register Latest Topics
 
 
 


Reply
  Author   Comment   Page 1 of 2      1   2   Next
nerd

Caregiver
Registered:
Posts: 29
Reply with quote  #1 
Hi,
I'm a family friend trying to pick up the slack for a mom who isn't interested in learning much about her adult daughter's SE-AN, and a brother who lives close by, but is equally passive. Her father is deceased, and she has a (somewhat enabling) boyfriend, but lives alone. She has a good relationship with everyone, but they've only been actively supportive when she was IP. She is doing better now, but as far as I can tell, has no real desire to recover. I can't see her complying with modified FBT, even though she is eating. She is middle-aged, so it's not like she's just out of her teens and more dependent.
Anyway, it's nice to be here!
toothfairy

Avatar / Picture

Caregiver
Registered:
Posts: 1,195
Reply with quote  #2 
Hi nerd,
Welcome from Dublin.
You are a very good person to help your friend with this horrible minefield of an illness.
As you probably know it is a symptom of the illness that she has no real desire to recover.
Have you checked out Tabitha Farrar, there are AMAZING podcasts and blogs here , also Tabitha does private consultations.


http://tabithafarrar.com/


__________________
Son,DX with AN, (purging type) age 13 in October 2015 ,  (4 months immediate inpatient) , Then FBT at home since.and making progress every day. He is now in good recovery, and Living life to the full like a normal teen. We are not completely out of the woods yet, but we can see the light at the end of the tunnel, thanks to ATDT. Hoping to get him into full recovery and remission one day at a time.
tina72

Caregiver
Registered:
Posts: 135
Reply with quote  #3 
Hi nerd,
you seem to be a real good friend if you join us to help your friend. Its normal that she isn´t interested in recovery, that is one symptom of this illness (and one of the worst). Can you get anyone from her family or a friend who is living close to her get into the boat?
It is possible to recover even as an adult, but she needs help. Where does she live (country, state)?
Tina72
nerd

Caregiver
Registered:
Posts: 29
Reply with quote  #4 
Thank you, toothfairy--yes, I have heard Tabitha Farrar. I agree--very useful! I'll check out the  private consultation info, as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by toothfairy
Hi nerd,

Welcome from Dublin.
You are a very good person to help your friend with this horrible minefield of an illness.
As you probably know it is a symptom of the illness that she has no real desire to recover.
Have you checked out Tabitha Farrar, there are AMAZING podcasts and blogs here , also Tabitha does private consultations.


http://tabithafarrar.com/

nerd

Caregiver
Registered:
Posts: 29
Reply with quote  #5 
Hi tina--in the boat? For recovery? She lives on the West Coast of the US. Her mom is on the East Coast. Her brother and his family are nearby but the brother seems more concerned about not spending his money on her, and the wife is sympathetic, but emphasizes personal responsibility too much, I think.
My friend has been dragged to IP before, but didn't have the insurance to go either before or after that one hospitalization, so she tends to use the ER. 
Thank you!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tina72
Hi nerd,
you seem to be a real good friend if you join us to help your friend. Its normal that she isn´t interested in recovery, that is one symptom of this illness (and one of the worst). Can you get anyone from her family or a friend who is living close to her get into the boat?
It is possible to recover even as an adult, but she needs help. Where does she live (country, state)?
Tina72
tina72

Caregiver
Registered:
Posts: 135
Reply with quote  #6 
Hi Nerd and everyone else here,
would you please not use so many sweds like ER? Here are a lot of peoples from other countries and we don´t understand that. What is ER?
Thanks,
Tina72
deenl

Moderator
Registered:
Posts: 771
Reply with quote  #7 
Hi Tina.
Er stands for the Emergency Room. It's the part of the hospital used crisis situations like accidents or life threatening symptoms.

Unfortunately a worldwide forum will have some communication issues. Each area has a different health care system, we all use different nuances in our language, all on top of the fact that typed words have no tone of voice.

You're doing great and your level of English is very impressive. Keep asking if we say something you don't understand.

Warm wishes
D

__________________
Mother of 13yo son restricting but no body image issues; inpatient 6 wks Sept/Oct 2015 but lost weight! So emotionally destroyed they agreed to let him home to us. Stable but no progress. Medical hosp to kick start recovery for Feb 2016. Slowly and cautiously gaining weight at home and seeing signs of our real kid. Hovering around WR. Mood great, mostly. Building up hour by hour at school after 18 months at home. 

Swedish proverb: Love me when I least deserve it because that's when I need it most.

We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence Recovery, then, is not an act but a habit. Aristotle.

If the plan doesn't work, change the plan but never the goal. (but don't give up on the plan too soon, maybe it just needs a tweak or a bit more time and determination [wink] )

tina72

Caregiver
Registered:
Posts: 135
Reply with quote  #8 
Thanks deenl,
now I learned another thing. I will be patient and make a list besides my pc. I´m just not used to so many abbreviations. [wink]
I´m glad when I understand the whole words...[biggrin] I shoud have watched more hospital series in the past...
Thank you again for the explanation. Hope I didn´t scare off Nerd.
Tina72
tina72

Caregiver
Registered:
Posts: 135
Reply with quote  #9 
I´m still laughing because NOBODY before said to me that my level of englisch is "very impressive". You saved my day today, deenl!
I think I will print this post and put it on the wall in my room. I must messure myself, I´m sure I´ve grown a bit in the last minutes even if I´m 45.
Tina72
nerd

Caregiver
Registered:
Posts: 29
Reply with quote  #10 
no worries
tina72

Caregiver
Registered:
Posts: 135
Reply with quote  #11 
Thanks nerd, now I can make supper and sleep well...[smile]
Tina72
Torie

Avatar / Picture

Caregiver
Registered:
Posts: 4,306
Reply with quote  #12 
Tina, I'm trying to learn some German and your English is light years better than my German.  Deenl is right that that your English is excellent.  xx

-Torie

__________________
"We are angels of hope, of healing, and of light. Darkness flees from us." -YP 
tina72

Caregiver
Registered:
Posts: 135
Reply with quote  #13 
Thanks Torie,
you are all so nice and I´m just so glad that I found you all. Your posts make me laugh (which I thought wouldn´t be able again) and sometimes cry (but also tears of joy). If you like to improve your german feel free to write me some privat emails in german.
Tina
nerd

Caregiver
Registered:
Posts: 29
Reply with quote  #14 
So someone brought up limiting certain foods in the 1st year so the patient doesn't freak out and quit recovery due to binging. But I think for an adult it might be different? (Plus, what is hyperpalatable for a teen might be sickly sweet for an adult, for example.) But...is there any validity to that approach? Maybe she fears overshooting?

https://www.kartiniclinic.com/blog/post/why-we-limit-hyper-palatable-foods-for-one-year/
tina72

Caregiver
Registered:
Posts: 135
Reply with quote  #15 
Hi nerd,
most patients fear overshooting, but from what I heard about it from other parents is seems to be only a fear. I once read about a study which validied that most of the patients with AN stay at the low weight side their whole life. A few get to "normal" weight and some fewer are actually getting overweight. I will search for this study again and post it when I found it. I have just been reading too much...
For an adult it might be easier to stand this fear by limiting such "sweets". Our d first thought she cannot eat ice cream and cakes because she will be "fat" in a week then. During recovery she learned that gaining weight is quite difficult and its harder to eat big amounts of so called "healthy" food than smaller amounts with sweets and cake on the plan. Your friend must learn that there is nothing bad happening by eating an ice-cream now and then. Its like medicine: it depends on the amount wether its healthy or poisoning. If you have a good meal plan integrating all different kinds of food that is healthy. Nobody would like to have a meal plan just with sweets.
The problem is they have to learn to listen to their body again. As long as they cannot trust themself to make good decisions somebody else has to do that. If your friend is living alone, maybe a good dietitian (one with experience with AN!) can see her weekly and give her a meal plan. But that needs a lot of compliance and work, I don´t know if your friend is able to do this. Normally the patients don´t want to get better and thats why they can´t do it on their own.
Tina72

Thats not the article I mentioned, but maybe it will help you or your friend to read this good information about the physical and psychological effects of gaining weight: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/hunger-artist/201011/starvation-study-shows-recovery-anorexia-is-possible-only-regaining-weight
tina72

Caregiver
Registered:
Posts: 135
Reply with quote  #16 
Maybe that was the study I mean:
Murray, H. B., Tabri, N., Thomas, J. J., Herzog, D. B., Franko, D. L., & Eddy, K. T. (2017). Will I get fat? 22-year weight trajectories of individuals with eating disorders. Int J Eat Disord. doi:10.1002/eat.22690
https://uncexchanges.org/2017/03/16/will-i-gain-weight-forever-what-we-know-about-weight-trajectory-during-recovery-from-an-eating-disorder/
Tina72
nerd

Caregiver
Registered:
Posts: 29
Reply with quote  #17 
Thank you for this info, tina. I will read these.
She is eating sweets these days, but usually follows up with charcoal caps, garcinia pills, sugar blockers, etc., and will omit other food so as not to add to her total daily cals.
She has seen people who are now obese who say they've had anorexia, but since ED often morphs, maybe they had AN and have BED now? Anyway, I know weight isn't enough to determine how a person eats or what ED they have/don't have, but she assumes the years of AN "ruined" their metabolism.
She saw a nutritionist (not a RD) who would be considered "disordered" in the ED world because she espouses things like "only eat what your grandparents would recognize as food".
nerd

Caregiver
Registered:
Posts: 29
Reply with quote  #18 
When her doc noticed she had put on some weight (she is the one who announced it in a support group; he just said, "that's good but it's not full recovery), she got scared and is now planning to start intermittent fasting.
nerd

Caregiver
Registered:
Posts: 29
Reply with quote  #19 
When she hears that once she gets weight restored she won't obsess over food and want to lose weight anymore, she asks me why, then, she wanted to lose in the 1st place. Good question. 
nerd

Caregiver
Registered:
Posts: 29
Reply with quote  #20 
Re. "the Minnesota Starvation Experiment, led by Dr. Ancel Keys, showed how 36 previously healthy young men all acquired eating disorders simply as a consequence of losing weight."
So 36 of 36 had a predisposition for ED? Or were there many more subjects involved?
tina72

Caregiver
Registered:
Posts: 135
Reply with quote  #21 
Hi nerd,
you mixe something up here. The Minnesota project didn´t show that all theses young men had EDs. It just showed that if you loose weight you show a lot of ED symptoms because theses symptoms are because of the starvation. So when starvation ends, the symptoms fade. Thats what we see with our d, most ED symptoms are now gone with weight recovery.
The question of your friend is not easy to answer, but a good one. The problem with AN is that once you lost weight you cannot stop it. If you and me lose 2 kg we would stop and eat again just because we couldn´t stand it any more. A patient with AN can´t stop that and will lose weight up to death. The reasons why the patients start losing weight the first time are quite different. Some start a diet, some are sick of a digestion illness, some do to much sports. There is often no reason for that. The great difference is that an AN patient cannot stop it because he likes the feeling of beeing thin and starving more than eating. If you are a healthy men you will start to eat just because you feel hungry. The AN patient likes that feeling of beeing hungry and his brain tells him not to eat something. Hunger is an elementary feeling which keeps men alive. Only a few people can stand feeling hungry. Thats why some scientists believe this was a biological advantage in early days of men when people were hiking big distances to find a new place to live. This illness could have survived because it was an advantage to stand long terms of starvation and be able to live.
The anwer for your friend is quite simple: every one of us has a biological weight which is good for you. If you reach that and hold it, your body will get healthy again and your brain heals. It won´t tell you to lose weight any more because you will feel well then. But you need to hold this weight and be careful not to lose it again. If you will lose 2 kg down this weight there will be the next rabbit hole waiting for you. Its like diabetes: you need to control your metabolism and food intake to stay healthy for the rest of your life. If you keep it on a good level, you can live a normal life.
Tina72
mjkz

Avatar / Picture

Caregiver
Registered:
Posts: 1,083
Reply with quote  #22 
Quote:
but she assumes the years of AN "ruined" their metabolism.


Not true.  My daughter has had severe anorexia for almost 20 years and has a very healthy metabolism.  She thought the same thing and only getting to a good weight and maintaining it convinced her otherwise.

Quote:
So 36 of 36 had a predisposition for ED? Or were there many more subjects involved?

No.  All of them showed the typical signs and symptoms previously associated with anorexia but were shown in the study to be actually due to starvation.  Previous to the Minnesota study, people thought the usual symptoms were due to anorexia.  The fact that all 36 showed the same symptoms proved the symptoms were due to starvation.

Quote:
When she hears that once she gets weight restored she won't obsess over food and want to lose weight anymore, she asks me why, then, she wanted to lose in the 1st place. Good question.


Who knows why?  For most people with the genetic predisposition, they got malnourished in one way or another and that led to them wanting to lose in the first place.  That doesn't mean that getting to weight restored state would again lead to wanting to lose weight again.

To be brutally honest about this, your friend is never going to believe things can be any different for her until she is weight restored and her brain has a chance to heal.  She sounds very well defended around her eating disorder and after so many years, it makes sense.  She is either going to trust someone else and jump into the deep end eating until she is weight restored and maintain that for a length of time to see the difference or stay exactly where she is.  It is that black or white.  My guess is that she will stay where she is but I hope she can take a leap of trust and at least try to do things differently.  As I told my daughter many times, she knows how to lose weight again so she has nothing to lose by trying.
nerd

Caregiver
Registered:
Posts: 29
Reply with quote  #23 
The article states that they acquired EDs. Maybe the phrasing is off?

Thanks, Tina!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tina72
Hi nerd,
you mixe something up here. The Minnesota project didn´t show that all theses young men had EDs. 
Tina72
nerd

Caregiver
Registered:
Posts: 29
Reply with quote  #24 
She has also heard that some foods in the US will make people gain, whereas in Europe and elsewhere the same foods won't, likely because of the additives. So she thinks those in the US can never know their true set point.
nerd

Caregiver
Registered:
Posts: 29
Reply with quote  #25 
Hi mjkz,
She tried an alternative tx and had one full day of believing she could recover. That's a start.
I know in IP she realized that she didn't ever want to look and feel like that again, but as soon as she got out, she was back to sneaking diet pills in the bathroom of IOP. IOP lasted 3 days, btw.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjkz

To be brutally honest about this, your friend is never going to believe things can be any different for her until she is weight restored and her brain has a chance to heal.  She sounds very well defended around her eating disorder and after so many years, it makes sense.  She is either going to trust someone else and jump into the deep end eating until she is weight restored and maintain that for a length of time to see the difference or stay exactly where she is.  It is that black or white.  My guess is that she will stay where she is but I hope she can take a leap of trust and at least try to do things differently.  As I told my daughter many times, she knows how to lose weight again so she has nothing to lose by trying.
Previous Topic | Next Topic
Print
Reply

Quick Navigation:

F.E.A.S.T. Families Empowered and Supporting Treatment of Eating Disorders
is a 501(c)3 charitable organization committed to maintaining the Around the Dinner Table forum as a FREE service for any caregiver of a loved-one with an eating disorder.

P.O. Box 1281 | Warrenton, VA 20188 USA

US +1 855-50-FEAST | Canada +1 647-247-1339 | Australia +61 731886675 | UK +443308280031 

This forum is sponsored by F.E.A.S.T., an organization of parents serving parents and caregivers of patients of all ages with anorexia, bulimia, and other eating disorders. Information and advice given on this forum does not necessarily represent the policy or opinion of F.E.A.S.T. or its volunteers and is meant to support, not replace, professional consultation.

F.E.A.S.T. is registered as a nonprofit organization under section 501(c)(3) of the United States Internal Revenue Code.

Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Community Rules | Forum Rules | F.E.A.S.T. Principles | YMadmin | WTadmin
Custom Search of F.E.A.S.T. and Forum Content: