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PuddleduckNZ

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Reply with quote  #26 
S is the same, he says ew did you put cream in this, gross, and it will be a huge battle and fight with it going warm and then looking really undrinkable.

My completely normal ravenous non-ED 12yo son is the same, hates things too creamy, so I don't think its just ED.

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Son 9yrs when he became unwell 2013, ED slide from April 2014, dx at 10yrs July 2014, 2 hospitalisations - dx so many times Behavioural Anorexia, EDNOS, ARFID. FBT from August 2014. Anxiety, Emetophobia. 12.5yrs old now! In recovery, gets better every day with constant vigilance, life returns.
trusttheprocessUSA

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Reply with quote  #27 
Yep - Eating straight HWC is difficult - my son will not eat it either unless it's in a milkshake. Mostly my son gets his fat from red meat - and lots of it.
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Son diagnosed @ 12.5 yrs old with Severe RAN 2/11. Co-morbids - anxiety, Active restriction for 3 months. He stopped eating completely 2x. He needed immediate, aggressive treatment from a provider who specialized in eating disorders, adolescents and males. We got that at Kartini Clinic. WR since 5/11. 2017 getting ready to graduate slipping lost 8lbs. Fighting our way back.
mnmomUSA

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Reply with quote  #28 
In the US, not all HWC is created equal either.  The "store" brand (Target, Trader Joe's) has 45 calories per Tablespoon.  The "Horizon's Organic Heavy Whipping Cream" (sold at my Costco) has 50 per same amount.  I know that's not a huge difference, but when I'm fighting this ED, I will take any extra calories I can get.

D "claims" she can taste the HWC in her milk, but I personally call BS on that.  I did it for three straight days and she said not a word.  (Note: we've purchased nothing but whole milk in our house since we started this ED ordeal...I suspect there is a much more dramatic difference in taste if lower fat milk is the norm).  On the evening of the third day, she saw me preparing her glass of milk, and ever since then, she says "I can taste that you tainted my milk."  I simply do not care.  I am that brick wall.  It's your milk. Drink it.  I know that she intuitively gets that it is the fastest way to get calories in. We've gained 2 pounds in 2 weeks time which makes me very happy.  I think it even makes her happy.  (Not her ED, but I don't care about that evil witch anyway).



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D, age 17, first diagnosed March 20, 2013, RAN, at age 13 Hospitalized 3 weeks for medical stability. FBT at home since.  UCSD Multi-family Intensive June 2015. We've arrived on the other side.  :-)
mnmomUSA

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Reply with quote  #29 
Honey Badger, I also wanted to suggest Liberte brand yogurt (if your son will eat yogurt).  Those little puppies have roughly 300 calories per 6 ounce container...astounding really.  They are available at Target in my area.  I can't taste much difference from "regular" yogurt, but obviously the calories are much higher.  Also, I stir an extra T of HWC into those before serving.  So far, at least, my D (who swears she can tell when HWC is added) has said not a word about the yogurt being "tainted."  LOL
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D, age 17, first diagnosed March 20, 2013, RAN, at age 13 Hospitalized 3 weeks for medical stability. FBT at home since.  UCSD Multi-family Intensive June 2015. We've arrived on the other side.  :-)
Honey_Badger

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Reply with quote  #30 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mnmomUSA
Honey Badger, I also wanted to suggest Liberte brand yogurt (if your son will eat yogurt).  Those little puppies have roughly 300 calories per 6 ounce container...astounding really.  They are available at Target in my area.  I can't taste much difference from "regular" yogurt, but obviously the calories are much higher.  Also, I stir an extra T of HWC into those before serving.  So far, at least, my D (who swears she can tell when HWC is added) has said not a word about the yogurt being "tainted."  LOL


THANK YOU!   They sell that brand at my local grocery store and it looks like it might be a palatable choice for him.   He used to like Yoplait  but ONLY "Thick and Creamy" no other brand but that one is hard to find.

I'm feeling a bit positive today.   For breakfast my son willingly made himself 2 small bagels with cream cheese, and I sauteed him 4 breakfast sausages (precooked) that he ate over Christmas break and found he liked.  Those foods plus a cup of orange juice started him off the day with about 900 calories, and included some non-dairy protein (such as it is from the sausages -- I'll take what I can get.  

He brought a big bakery muffin to school and ate it for morning snack so another source of non dairy protein (egg -- a little bit).  That's about 300 calories.   His lunch box shows he ate 1/2 the PB and J sandwich and the 1/4 C macademia nuts and the chocolate milk.

And I found a favorite fast food restaurant of his that I hadn't known about only 8 minutes out of my way after work... all in all it added about 20 minutes to my drive home to pick up my younger daughter, so it gives me one more option for prtein and calories he'll eat -- he likes their chicken sandwich, french fries and chocolate shake.   That's another easy 1000 calories.

So these foods aren't the healthiest but he is slightly expanding what he'll eat (sausage and spicy chicken sandwich are additions within the past 2 weeks but they are HUGE because they are meat)  The sausages are good because they are foods I can keep in the freezer and just make a few at a time.   And I am being more conscious of the need to get a lot of calories in him.


Torie

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Reply with quote  #31 
Oh yay!! So glad to hear the good news!

Did you ever try him on frozen meatballs?  They're another super-easy way to add protein (if he will eat them)- you can just microwave however many you need and keep the rest frozen.  

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PuddleduckNZ

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Reply with quote  #32 
Excellent! [smile]


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Son 9yrs when he became unwell 2013, ED slide from April 2014, dx at 10yrs July 2014, 2 hospitalisations - dx so many times Behavioural Anorexia, EDNOS, ARFID. FBT from August 2014. Anxiety, Emetophobia. 12.5yrs old now! In recovery, gets better every day with constant vigilance, life returns.
Honey_Badger

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Reply with quote  #33 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torie
Oh yay!! So glad to hear the good news!

Did you ever try him on frozen meatballs?  They're another super-easy way to add protein (if he will eat them)- you can just microwave however many you need and keep the rest frozen.  


It's a great idea and once upon a time (like 6 years ago) he did eat frozen Swedish meatballs, but since becoming a vegetarian he gave them up and hasn't eaten them (or been willing to try them) since.   I am hoping as he starts adding meat back into his diet I can bring those (and hotdogs) back because they are so convenient.
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Reply with quote  #34 
Yesterday was a big breakthrough for us.   My son ate a large portion of home cooked salmon, and I bought it frozen!   Prior to this there have been only 2 type of salmon he would eat -- one bought from the local farmers market, and one made at a particular restaurant about 45 minutes away from us!   I try to replicate it at home and he is never able to eat it because it isn't the same.

This fish I bought a the local supermarket, frozen, and thawed for 2 days (i.e. not in the microwave which I think must change the texture or smell or something.)  I told him about it in the car to school today.  I said I am glad your after school club is cancelled because I want you home at 5 in time for a nice piece of salmon I got.   He said something like, "it has to have a lot of lemon" and I said "I have TONS of lemons!  And capers!"   And indeed, I made the salmon just right -- lot so lemon and capers and dill and butter and oil in the sauce; and in a piece of parchment so it didn't get too crispy... and I removed the skin before he saw it.   And he ate it, a large piece!  (Well, a regular, kid sized piece.   Not a few toddler bites.)

This is really big because he is just starting to eat meat and fish again and I would LOVE to find a fish he would eat twice a week.  It would expend our dinner options so much.

My daughter (who hates fish, but just in a normal "i don't like" fish kind of way, not a "I'll only eat fish if it has a certain taste and texture" way) also ate the fish and said it wasn't too bad!   So maybe we have one more good dinner meal.

New foods my son has continued to eat this week include:  roasted peanuts, roasted cashew nuts, chocolate chip muffins, and a chocolate milk shake.

I fear he has NOT been eating many vegetables or fruits.   I have been pushing the high calorie and high fat foods more.  Last night he ate some asparagus happily enough, though.

I found some Liberte yogurt and it looks like it will be really good.   I have had to warn my husband NOT to eat the muffins (at 600 calories per muffin) and yogurt (at 250 calories per 1/2 cup!) because they are calorie bombs for us!

Foodsupport_AUS

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Reply with quote  #35 
What great progress you are making. A fantastic week, new foods, eating more. Well done. 
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D diagnosed restrictive AN June 2010 age 13.5. Weight restored July 2012. Relapse and now clawing our way back. Treatment: multiple hospitalisations and individual and family therapy.
trusttheprocessUSA

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Reply with quote  #36 
Wow this is great news!! You are doing a great job getting creative and coming up with meals for your boy - high calorie high fat will support his huge growth. He's growing from a boy into a man and you are supporting that growth. Since he is 13 yrs old and has been dropping in terms of his growth you will have to feed him more than you might think. Keep going keep feeding and keep looking for the high calorie options.


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Son diagnosed @ 12.5 yrs old with Severe RAN 2/11. Co-morbids - anxiety, Active restriction for 3 months. He stopped eating completely 2x. He needed immediate, aggressive treatment from a provider who specialized in eating disorders, adolescents and males. We got that at Kartini Clinic. WR since 5/11. 2017 getting ready to graduate slipping lost 8lbs. Fighting our way back.
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Reply with quote  #37 
Thanks!   I realize though that my son only ate about 450 calories for breakfast this morning.   It is so hard when we are rushed to stay on top of things.   If he eats all his lunch that will be a good 1000.  But it is really hard to get to 2500 a day!
Honey_Badger

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Reply with quote  #38 
Oh -- here's one more food my son ate that was VERY high in calories and fat:

http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/alton-brown/oyster-soup-recipe.html

Oyster cream soup.   It's made with heavy cream, butter, and a pint of oysters!   I have to use VERY fresh oysters so the taste isn't "fishy" at all, and I puree the whole thing so no body sees that there are slimy oysters or celery in it.   I top it with chopped bacon.  
IrishUp

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Reply with quote  #39 
Honey_Badger - has your son had a professional evaluation by an ED specialist MD? Or a pediatric behavioral specialist? 


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Reply with quote  #40 
Not yet, I have an appointment in February.
edbites

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Reply with quote  #41 
Noosa is another good yogurt brand with 300 calories per serving. It's full fat and super creamy. Not cheap (I can find it on sale for about $2/tub, but usually it's more around $2.25), but it tastes so good it's worth it. A lot of grocery stores carry it- Harris Teeter might, Fresh Market does, so does Giant. Not sure about other DC area stores.
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mamabear

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Reply with quote  #42 
My daughter may hold the record- at 6000 cals for 2.5 years. And it got to be just " normal" for my H and I to get it done.

If you use the highest cal Ben and Jerry's or hagan das (350 cals per serving)- you can easily do 2 to 3 servings of the ice cream with a cup of whipping cream and a couple tablespoons of canola oil blended in and reach the 2000 calorie mark. My daughter had a shake every single day for afternoon snack. She was 10,11,12 and able to get it down.

Canola oil can be whipped into yogurts and granola (sops it up) and into creamy soups and chilis etc.

French toast, oatmeal, noodles- anything that calls for use of milk can be replaced with whipping cream.

I make a mean " nutloaf" made with cashews, pecans, bread crumbs, cream,cheese, eggs etc. It is vegetarian but I have tricked my father in law who thought it was meat. If you want the recipe- let me know.

As he starts to gain weight you may find that his metabolism speeds up and his caloric needs may rise. Many of us have had that experience.

You have had so much success this far! Great job!

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Honey_Badger

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Reply with quote  #43 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamabear
My daughter may hold the record- at 6000 cals for 2.5 years. And it got to be just " normal" for my H and I to get it done. If you use the highest cal Ben and Jerry's or hagan das (350 cals per serving)- you can easily do 2 to 3 servings of the ice cream with a cup of whipping cream and a couple tablespoons of canola oil blended in and reach the 2000 calorie mark. My daughter had a shake every single day for afternoon snack. She was 10,11,12 and able to get it down. Canola oil can be whipped into yogurts and granola (sops it up) and into creamy soups and chilis etc. French toast, oatmeal, noodles- anything that calls for use of milk can be replaced with whipping cream. I make a mean " nutloaf" made with cashews, pecans, bread crumbs, cream,cheese, eggs etc. It is vegetarian but I have tricked my father in law who thought it was meat. If you want the recipe- let me know. As he starts to gain weight you may find that his metabolism speeds up and his caloric needs may rise. Many of us have had that experience. You have had so much success this far! Great job!


mamabear, thank you so much.

I have been reading people's journeys and just finished reading much about yours.   Thank you for detailing what you have been going through.  It is very helpful to me to see how you have been able to refeed and support weight gain as well as height through adolesence!
Honey_Badger

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Reply with quote  #44 
And yes I would love the nutloaf recipe!


We have made more progress and I am learning a lot.
 
To recap, my son has not yet been formally evaluated or diagnosed. We have an appointment with an ED specialist in February.  While waiting for the appointment I am trying to do my best with: paying attention to calories; keeping a food diary of what my son is offered and what he is eating; finding more high calorie and high fat foods he finds palatable; and getting my son to willingly eat more/different variety of foods, especially protein that isn't based on dairy.  
 
Now that I see how few calories my son was eating and how far he has fallen off his growth curve, I simply can't spend the next few weeks just allowing him to keep on as he was.  However, without guidance from a medical professional, I don't feel right "requiring" him yet to eat all his food.  I am sticking for the next few weeks with trying to bring in tasty, high calorie foods he WILL eat; expand his sources of protein to include non-dairy whenever possibly, and changing our lifestyle in ways we CAN manage without too much conflict.
 
I am also trying to identify "lifestyle" problems that are getting in the way of getting my son enough calories in the form he prefers.  For example, he really still won't eat meat -- but he WILL eat (part of) a certain chicken sandwich from a certain restaurant. He will also eat  that restaurant's waffle fries (but NO OTHER brand, and nothing made at home from a frozen bag), sauce, and a chocolate milk shake.   If I could manage to go through the drive through there 2 or 3 times a week, he would very happily eat a 1500 calorie dinner from that restaurant.
 
The reasons I didn't do that before were:  1) I thought it was obscene to eat from a drive through 2 x a week 2) cost 3) the restaurant drive would take a full 1.5 hours out of my life (30 minutes there, 20 minutes wait for food) and 30 minutes back.  Before I went back to work full time, there were days I was willing to add such a trip to my life just to be sure my son got something to eat!   But I went back to work full time this year (husband is seriously ill) and suddenly I just don't have the time to do that kind of thing anymore.
 
So -- I started checking around and realized that there IS this certain fast food restaurant not too far out of my route home from work on Wednesdays.  It only adds about 30 minutes total to my commute.  In addition, I can buy a few extra Large French Fries (at 500 calories per box!) and keep them in a Ziplock in the fridge.  My son discovered that they still taste appealing to him the next day, heated in the microwave.   He is HAPPY to have them as a snack after school that he can fix himself!   So this will for the next few months be a permanent part of my schedule.  We will have a weekly meal plan geared to high calorie foods I know my son will happily eat.
 
We started making milkshakes at home and I learned that there is one he does like.  Also, I'm trying smoothies but haven't had much success.  This morning I made a smoothie with some Liberte yogurt, OJ, and whipping cream -- and he heard me and came running from the bedroom and asked if it was for him.  He eagerly took it, said "Thanks!"... started sipping, and unfortunately was disappointed with the taste.   He was then unwilling to try another one.  This is the problem I have with him -- he has a VERY strong taste aversion reflex.  If he tries something new once, and it isn't perfect -- that's it -- the thought of trying it again makes him feel nauseated.  I agreed with him that it needed more fruit, probably, but I didn't have any.   I added some more OJ and it tasted fine to me, and to his sister, but he was having none of it.
 
A new food for him comes from our local grocery store, Wegman's. They make a double chocolate, chocolate chip muffin that he likes.   He just eats the center of it, and says the best part is the part with the chocolate chips.  This is a BIG breakthrough because up until recently, he couldn't stand having chocolate chips in anything.   It was a texture thing -- he liked his cookies or pancakes smooth, didn't want them interrupted with little bumps of things.   I'd even pour the pancake batter through a sieve first to be sure there weren't any lumps in it.  if he encountered one lump of flour in his pancake, that would be it for his appetite.
 
So now I am looking for a recipe for a super chocolatey, double chocolate chip muffin to which I can add extra chocolate chips, so he might eat the whole thing.  It has to be all chocolate -- not a regular muffin with added chips.   Anyone have one?
 
Spiced macademia nuts have become a preferred, asked for snack.  This is a HUGE big deal for us.   Today he asked me to pack some in his lunch -- I packed 1/2 a Cup.
 
And lifestyle wise, I have gone back to packing my son's lunch for him.  I got so frustrated with his not eating and refusing to eat "people food" tyhat I gave up on his lunch this year and told him to just find something in the kitchen.  I thought it was ridiculous for the mom of a 7th grader to be making him a PB and J sandwich every day.  Until he gets back to a healthy place on his BMI curve I am going back to making all his food for him, especially if he requests it.  I have found a higher calorie whole wheat bread at the grocery store (just 30 calories more per slice than the other brand).  He WILL eat a PB sandwich -- not all of it -- but at least half, and says he likes it enough.
 
I am buying him TONS of individual chocolate milk drinks from Horizon.  He loves the convenience of them and the fact that their taste doesn't change, unlike the taste of the chocolate milk you can buy by the gallon.  (The first day it tastes "fresh", the next day less so, etc.......)  They are however low fat.  I wish I could find single serving full fat chocolate milk.  Alternately, I think I could maybe buy smaller containers of full fat chocolate milk, at least for meals when I am pouring and setting the milk on the table.
 
All of this is exhausting and expensive, but I am reading stories of what other parents are going through, and I really want to get him up to a better weight by working WITH his appetite and food preferences, which means a lot of work for me.  He IS willing to eat as long as I get him the right types of food.  He isn't resisting calories or fats at all.  It's just a taste/texture preference.   So I am trying and hoping I am doing the right thing.
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Reply with quote  #45 
Hi Honey_Badger - Thanks for taking the time to write that up for us!  It's so interesting to read so many different variations on the theme of "How do I get them to eat enough?"  

Too bad he didn't like the smoothie.  Did you freeze the yogurt so that the consistency was more like a milkshake or was it more the consistency of thick cream?  What works best in my household is to freeze the yogurt - I have read that others freeze in ice cube trays, but what works best for me is to get the large container (quart?) and split into 4 ziplock bags which can then be flattened down in the freezer.  When time to make the smoothie, it is easy to break the frozen yogurt into large chunks to put in the blender (unfortunately, the bag is destroyed in that process so can only be used once), add HWC, frozen fruit (usually strawberries but maybe also mangoes and blueberries or whatever) and powdered sugar.  I have to kind of alternate putting some of the frozen, some of the HWC and blend, and more frozen, more HWC, blend ... and still I have to wrestle with the blender a bit to get it to do its job.  Surely not the best recipe out there, but perhaps worth a try especially if you can give this concoction a new name to encourage him to have an open mind.

Good luck, good work, and do keep us posted.

Hugs

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Honey_Badger

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Reply with quote  #46 
Thanks Torie!   That's the kind of practical advice I am in need of right now!

I didn't make this smoothie from a recipe and I think it was just too much yogurt and cream; needed more fruit!   It didn't taste right to me either.  I should have known better than to give it to him but I didn't want to waste it AND well, I was in a rush to get out the door.... you know how it can be.  I WILL keep trying because I think it sill be a valuable addition to our morning if I figure out a good recipe.
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Reply with quote  #47 
Hi Honey_Badger,

Good for you not to wait til ED specialist appt in Feb, but to start making a difference NOW in getting your son to expand food choices and getting higher caloric density meals in NOW, no matter the inconvenience and cost.  That is already a big step in the right direction.

In terms of smoothies...it was a huge fear food for my d, and something that took us quite a while to get her to have.  But it simply was a case of needing to get a high number of calories in, and FINALLY she broke down because the volume of other foods that she needed to eat instead of having a daily smoothie was just so daunting.

In terms of smoothies, what can help to make it 'thicker' is usually frozen bananas in addition to the highest cal ice cream and adding in oils (canola).  I bought tons of bananas, and when they were very ripe, just peeled them, broke them into smaller pieces and froze in a large ziplock.  Not sure if your s likes bananas, but one favourite for my d was a banana, peanut butter, chocolate smoothie.  You can add things like chocolate carnation instant breakfast to add more calories.  It's not difficult to make a 1000 cal smoothie/milk shake.

Best of luck as you work towards finding options that s will eat without much fuss, until you get more professional support in place to totally 'go for it' and work on behaviours and increasing food choices.

Sending you warm support,
sk8r31


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trusttheprocessUSA

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Reply with quote  #48 
Your plan if attack is a good one. The sooner he can eat enough calories the better.

Interesting, my son has the same type of aversion - if he has a food that he has a bad experience with he eliminates that food. For example he had hot dogs at a young age before ED and then caught a stomach bug so he has refused hot dogs ever since. He had a bad experience with tomatoes sauce same thing. Over the last 3 months I am pointing it out to him and helping him try these oddly eliminated foods - so far so good but he is almost 4 years in recovery.

About smoothies, my son loves strawberry banana smoothy. Frozen berries, frozen half banana, frozen Liberte yogurt a scoop of Hagen daz vanilla ice cream and a tbs of strawberry jam this works every time. He required a smoothy before bed for more than 2 years so I bought a Ninja blender that comes with individual cups - it is expensive but can whip up a great smoothy in minutes.

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Son diagnosed @ 12.5 yrs old with Severe RAN 2/11. Co-morbids - anxiety, Active restriction for 3 months. He stopped eating completely 2x. He needed immediate, aggressive treatment from a provider who specialized in eating disorders, adolescents and males. We got that at Kartini Clinic. WR since 5/11. 2017 getting ready to graduate slipping lost 8lbs. Fighting our way back.
PuddleduckNZ

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Reply with quote  #49 
You are doing awesome! Keep feeding him!

I also freeze strawberries and bananas in chunks, cream and yoghurt in ice-cube trays for the smoothies.

I wish I had been in your position earlier in the piece, found this forum and got started before I waited for appts. You are on this.

I have learnt a lot more about the dx ARFID recently via specialists overseas.

Being in the US, I would hope you should have access to someone who at least knows what they are dealing with.

My son was treated as if he had AN for months, and he does not. So much so that he can't stop calling his illness Anorexia as that's what they called it for so long.

He has zero body image issues, (they said they may come in time, but they have not). He has no exercise compulsion, he is not afraid of 'fattening' foods. Just food in general. Really of 'eating' in general and certain foods/textures, also as others have said, any bad experiences, like when he choked or when he vomited or something that reminds him of those things can set him off. Concerns of being sick and getting sick and foods that might make you sick (ironic). Health anxiety about getting better, desperately wants to be better, to put weight on. Very atypical.

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Son 9yrs when he became unwell 2013, ED slide from April 2014, dx at 10yrs July 2014, 2 hospitalisations - dx so many times Behavioural Anorexia, EDNOS, ARFID. FBT from August 2014. Anxiety, Emetophobia. 12.5yrs old now! In recovery, gets better every day with constant vigilance, life returns.
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Reply with quote  #50 
Quote:
Originally Posted by trusttheprocessUSA
Interesting, my son has the same type of aversion - if he has a food that he has a bad experience with he eliminates that food.


I guess most of us have that to some degree -- it's why I can't drink rum!  (One very bad experience in college on a trip to Bahama....)   It must be a biological mechanism.   If you eat something and it makes you throw up, you will know to avoid it in the future.   

Maybe some kids (people) just have that aversion more strongly than others?   I know my son has always run very hot and cold -- always reacted more intensely to everything, ever time.
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