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Honey_Badger

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Reply with quote  #101 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PuddleduckNZ


I have been told also, I clearly know what I'm doing food wise, feed like the mama you are.

Which is nice and comforting/validating, but doesn't help much with the slowness and fussiness and all the rest of the behaviours huh!


Yeah, I guess it is better than being told "You have no idea what you are doing; let me educate you on nutrition".  On the other hand, it is scary when you realize that the so called professionals don't know any more than you do!! 

I actually didn't know that much about calories and fat 8 weeks ago -- I learned EVERYTHING about how to boost caloric intake here on the high calorie meal thread!  I credit people there with most of my son's 8 pound gain.   On my own, I would never have though to add 2T HWC to every glass of chocolate milk.

I really could use help though with the picky/selective eating issues.   Like, I would really really, really like to get my son to be able to eat eggs.  They smell so bad to him though.  He hasn't eaten them since he was a toddler, when I would make him just the yolks -- little pancakes made just of the yolks.   I would love to find some suggestions from other people who have managed to make eggs appealing to their picky/selective eating child.

I guess that's hardly a "nutritionist" issue though.

galanick

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Reply with quote  #102 
Eggs are a big challenge. I think they have difficult texture because both my two picky ones will not touch. When d was about 7 decided would eat an Easter egg for easter. On easter morning went to frig and took big bite of egg, shell and all. Promptly spit out. When I told her that tasted better without shell: her comment was that shell was best part, at least it was crunchy. I really wish they would eat, as they have a lot of protein and fat. Good luck. Hope your s does better than my girls.
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PuddleduckNZ

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Reply with quote  #103 
We struggle with eggs too, its one of the things my son dropped first when he began restricting.

He will do frittata and little bacon and egg pies now, but not a boiled, fried, or poached egg. I always get him to eat a little bit, but it is still a major drama.

I put yolks in smoothies sometimes.

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Son 9yrs when he became unwell 2013, ED slide from April 2014, dx at 10yrs July 2014, 2 hospitalisations - dx so many times Behavioural Anorexia, EDNOS, ARFID. FBT from August 2014. Anxiety, Emetophobia. 12.5yrs old now! In recovery, gets better every day with constant vigilance, life returns.
Honey_Badger

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Reply with quote  #104 
So I came up with another high nourishment food my son WILL happily eat -- "bone broth".  It is supposedly super trendy right now, but it is just old fashioned stock made from animal bones.   He likes broth (even when he was a strict vegetarian) and apparently if you gook the stock a LONG time (like 24+ hours?) it gets a lot of gelatin into the broth.   Some people skim the fat off the top but you can leave it in and then you have a soup that is fairly high in fat and gelatin (which I think is protein?   Or amino acids that are essential to protein?)   I am having a hard time finding reputable information about nutrients in bone broth/stock exactly.   

I was leaning away from broths because the tend to fill him up too quickly and then he won't have room for the rest of his meal.   Also, in the past it was hit or miss if he liked the homemade broth I made -- I think probably he objects to the taste of the onions (too bitter)  so I can leave them out.  He also didn't like broth made from rotisserie chicken (too weird!)  but just from a regular chicken should be fine.   I'll try it in the crockpot tonight overnight.
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Reply with quote  #105 
Broth is fab, I do it too, and freeze into ice cubes, then add to other meals as needed [smile]
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Son 9yrs when he became unwell 2013, ED slide from April 2014, dx at 10yrs July 2014, 2 hospitalisations - dx so many times Behavioural Anorexia, EDNOS, ARFID. FBT from August 2014. Anxiety, Emetophobia. 12.5yrs old now! In recovery, gets better every day with constant vigilance, life returns.
Honey_Badger

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Reply with quote  #106 
I am toying with the idea of adding unflavored gelatin to broth (or milkshakes?) for extra protein.

I never even considered adding Boost, Ensure etc or protein powders to milk shakes because my son is so sensitive to the differences in taste and texture and I don't want to "put him off" the few foods that are high calorie and fat that he is happy to eat.

But he's very happy to eat my homemade chicken broth.  Which has a lot of natural gelatin in it.   So maybe I can get some more gelatin into the broth without it altering the taste or texture too much?

Do you know, is gelatin actually a complete protein?   I am having trouble figuring this out….

Side note -- last night we were all watching some episode of TV together and it involved a "vegan activist" who was outside chanting "meat is murder".   I didn't act fast enough to turn the TV off (and wasn't sure what I should do to be honest).   I am a little worried about the repercussions in my son.   He has really only JUST started allowing himself to eat certain types of real meat again -- including fish (wild caught salmon, no visible skin or bones) and chicken in a masala or spicy Thai sauce (white meat, no gristle, no bones, cut into small diced shaped; little need to chew!)

I have forbidden all talk of food and food origins at our dinner table and all "anti-meat" discussions in our house.  Talking with his sister about how bad mcD's nuggets are or how they make veal etc means loss of computer time for the week… that's how serious I am about it!   So having this come up on the TV was upsetting and I hope it doesn't affect him at all.
Tali97

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Reply with quote  #107 
For a gelatine to add to things you could look at Collagen Hydrolysate. We use the one by Great Lakes but there are others. The advantage is that it dissolves in cold liquids and is virtually tasteless. Meaning my kid could not taste it when i added it without his knowledge and he wanted it added without his knowledge. It is easier to digest than many proteins, but digestion is part of our problem. Thus it is a consideration for us.  
What do you mean by a complete protein? Are you looking at the amino acid content ? 


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18 year old boy (Gluten Free/Dairy Free 2005)
 IP - March/April 2014.  ARFID.
 2015 - Gastroparisis
Honey_Badger

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Reply with quote  #108 
Thanks Tali, the Great Lakes one was the one I was looking at -- virtually tasteless is great!   What is the texture like?

Yes, I was wondering about amino acids in gelatin -- my son having been a strict vegetarian for over 4 years it was always on my mind.
Tali97

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Reply with quote  #109 
There appears to be no distinguishable texture when added to liquids, although if you added it to water it may be noticeable. It does dissolve well in cold liquids. 
We use it as he has refused to eat meat since he was 2 years old and his diet is sadly lacking in protein. The amino acid difference from meat I could never find as the sites I found were bias one way or the other. It does contain the amino acids which are missing from the vegetable proteins. 
When looking for a protein powder to add the dietician was recommending Beneprotein, but it is whey based and the kid is dairy intolerant. 

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18 year old boy (Gluten Free/Dairy Free 2005)
 IP - March/April 2014.  ARFID.
 2015 - Gastroparisis
Honey_Badger

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Reply with quote  #110 
Well I looked into buying some gelatin but it is only sold in very very large packages online!     Is there a way to get just a small amount to try?

Feeling really down about eating the past 2-3 days.   My son hasn't been eating very much.   Stopped eating sausages, they taste funny now.  The past three Chick Fil A sandwiches I got him, he just took a couple bites.  It's mostly chocolate milk and fries.   Nibbled a bagel for breakfast; took a sip of my homemade chicken stock which he liked three days ago -- granted it's a little old now but it still tasted fine to me and my daughter -- no, bleah, tastes funny.   I made him a PB and J sandich on Italian Bread and he picked at it "Is this potato bread??"  shudder.   No, it is regular Italian bread.   He took 2 bites.

He went to play at a friend's house and came home saying he was HUNGRY.   At 4 PM.  I quickly made him some boxed mac and cheese which he did eat about 2 cups worth.   But that's not enough food for him for all day; even if he does eat dinner which will for him probably be spaghetti with no meat (the rest of us are having lamb which I KNOW he will not touch.  I was going to get him something different but we are now snowbound.  And I don't really know what else to feed him.)

he is so damn picky.   I was hopeful that the zinc I have been giving him was reducing the pickiness a tiny bit but that was wishful thinking, I fear.

I go grocery shopping lately and look at the rows and rows and rows of food available to us, and find myself mentally picking off all of them saying "There's another food my son won't eat."

I am just posting to vent; I know that our situation is very very different from most people who post here, but I feel very lonely and don't really have a lot of places where it is safe to talk, you know?   Even most people with severe picky eaters are not in a situation where lack of weight gain is a problem.
Tali97

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Reply with quote  #111 
amazon sold the protein powder in single cans the last time I looked. Delivery was within a couple of days even in Canada. I do by it in large quantities and use amazon if I forgot to renew the order.
Was your son tested for mineral deficiencies ? How much Zinc were you giving him? My son was given a supplement while in the hospital that he took for a long time after, but he observed that things had changed in taste after it was stopped so we started on a different multivitamin and mineral that was designed for teen boys and had a lot more zinc in it.

Vent away I have a kid that does not like food and has no appetite and never had. He eat because he is told to. Between the foods that he cannot eat and the foods that he will not eat there is not much left.


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18 year old boy (Gluten Free/Dairy Free 2005)
 IP - March/April 2014.  ARFID.
 2015 - Gastroparisis
Honey_Badger

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Reply with quote  #112 
No he hasn't been tested for deficiencies yet beyond iron which seemed OK to his pediatrician although I think it was on the low end of normal.  I would like it tested at some point.  The ED doctor suggested doing it at some point but he really hates blood to be drawn so she said not to do it at this initial visit.

I am giving him about 40 mg of zinc a day right now and a basic gummi multivitamin but it doesn't have iron.   I am doing the zinc mostly because he eats very little meat or eggs. 
Tali97

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Reply with quote  #113 
Well I understand about the blood draw we had a daily blood draw every day in the hospital and his needle phobia is still alive and well. There are things that they can give him to help, if the patch is not enough then there are fast acting anxiety drugs. Just saying.My kid wanted to know why no one had given him them before. 
Are you supplement B12?
The zinc sound like more that enough.


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18 year old boy (Gluten Free/Dairy Free 2005)
 IP - March/April 2014.  ARFID.
 2015 - Gastroparisis
Honey_Badger

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Reply with quote  #114 
I mistyped -- it is 20 mg not 40!

ETA:   No, I am not supplementing with B12.  He drinks about 900 bajillion glasses of milk a day so I didn't think he would be deficient in B12.
Tali97

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Reply with quote  #115 
Sorry I keep forgetting other kids can do dairy and gluten
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18 year old boy (Gluten Free/Dairy Free 2005)
 IP - March/April 2014.  ARFID.
 2015 - Gastroparisis
Honey_Badger

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Reply with quote  #116 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tali97
Sorry I keep forgetting other kids can do dairy and gluten


Didn't mean to complain about the milk intake! (And 900 bajillion is probably an exaggeration.)  But he does take in most of his calories from dairy I believe.

Gosh it must be really hard for you to find food!
Tali97

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Reply with quote  #117 
The diagnosis happened many years ago. But it is why I know about the gelatin.

Enjoy the fact he will consume the dairy. 

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18 year old boy (Gluten Free/Dairy Free 2005)
 IP - March/April 2014.  ARFID.
 2015 - Gastroparisis
Torie

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Reply with quote  #118 
I give my d tablets that have 50 mg of zinc gluconate.  What kind of zinc are you using?

-Torie

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SCL

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Reply with quote  #119 
Our RD recommended zinc sulfate...
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Honey_Badger

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Reply with quote  #120 
The new zinc tablets I went out and bought when we ran out are zinc citrate/ and zinc gluconate.

The old ones were KidZinc which were zinc aspartate and zinc monomethionine.  Maybe those were better absorbed or something?   I might switch back and see if we don't see more improved appetite with the old ones.

Honey_Badger

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Reply with quote  #121 
He at maybe 2 cups/servings of boxed mac n cheese at 4 PM.   Made with butter and full fat milk.      

I waited dinner until almost 8 to give him time to get hungry again, but he ate nothing.   Drank 1 C of chocolate milk with us for dinner.   Said he was full, full, full but I don't know how.   Said he had animal crackers at his friends' house but not a whole lot.

He had a few bites of romaine lettuce which is a new food for him at dinner, and I think 1/4 of an avocado with some lemon on it.   He's never been a salad eater before; lettuce is a new thing.   Other than that nothing.

  I want to be cramming him with calories.   I am hoping I am doing the right thing here by trying to work with his appetite, but I honestly don't know.   In my heart I feel that if I try to force him more, it will just backfire.   I do feel that requiring kids with anorexia to eat IS the right thing but that this is a different beast.  Because there's nothing telling him not to eat in his head.   He just isn't hungry.   But if he IS hungry, he eats very well.   I have to coax his appetite back somehow..... I think.   I just don't know, though!

UGH


galanick

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Reply with quote  #122 
Rd recommended Ellen satters book. I have ordered but haven't read yet. From what I read on her web site she does feel forcing selective eaters can backfire. We have been trying to get little one to eat anything green. Started with 3 spoonful of green beens. Always huge fight. Well on what I read on her web site we have been just been putting one green been on her plate. Well after a week or so she just started eating it. Few days ago, I put 4 beeens on plate and she ate without fuss. Of corse next day wouldn't even eat chicken nuggets. Two steps forward one step back I guess. Sounds sort of what you are trying.
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Honey_Badger

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Reply with quote  #123 
Quote:
Originally Posted by galanick
Rd recommended Ellen satters book. I have ordered but haven't read yet. From what I read on her web site she does feel forcing selective eaters can backfire. We have been trying to get little one to eat anything green. Started with 3 spoonful of green beens. Always huge fight. Well on what I read on her web site we have been just been putting one green been on her plate. Well after a week or so she just started eating it. Few days ago, I put 4 beeens on plate and she ate without fuss. Of corse next day wouldn't even eat chicken nuggets. Two steps forward one step back I guess. Sounds sort of what you are trying.


Yeah, that's exactly the dynamic.

I emailed a friend who bucked me up.   She said to remember the successes.

-He's willingly taking the zinc chewable lozenges, the gummy vitamin, and even the omega 3 fish oil, 2x a day/  No battles. In the past that was too hard.

- He doesn't throw away food or hide whet he hasn't eaten so at least I know what's going in.

- He is getting more fat and calories in his milk than ever before because of switching to full fat chocolate milkshakes.   (And when I pour for him I'm adding HWC to each glass).

- He IS adding some more meat to his diet.   2 months ago fish and chicken would just be turned down without even trying.  At least he is wiling to try.

- He IS trying new foods.  He is being critical of them in his picky picky way, but at least his criticism is giving me feedback as to how he would like the food.   (He actually ate some of my fried potatoes the other day -- just a few, the crunchy parts-- and complained that they weren't crunchy enough....So, he likes crunchy potatoes.)

- Some days he has had a big appetite.   I want it every day but at least it is some days.

- He hasn't lost any weight since Tuesday.   It looks to me like he isn't eating much but he hasn't lost weight.  

I read the Satter book years ago but kind of feel she steered me down a bad path. I didn't force him to eat, but I also didn't ensure he got enough to eat.   I always made sure there was something on the table at dinner he could eat, but if it was just the rice or the bread or the pasta, and milk --  that wasn't enough food for him.   He didn't get enough calories... for years and years and years, it seems.
Honey_Badger

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Reply with quote  #124 
I have more successes I just remembered:

1) The house smells incredibly right now of some ox tail stock I have been making for the past day in the crock pot.  It is a heavy smell but he hasn't once complained of the smell.  I am hoping to strain the soup so he doesn't see the biomass in it and hav it turn his stomach -- perhaps he will try some.

2) Last night we had lamb shanks for dinner, which again was a heavy smell and they did not look appetizing.  (Also didn't taste good to any of us)   Son didn't seem to mind them on the table, didn't tell us they were disgusting, and even passed them at the table.  

3) I gave him his fish oil this morning and there was a nasty clump of something in the spoon.   He reacted predictably and was grossed out by it, but just spit it into his hand and went to wash his hand and mouth out.  He did NOT react by saying he refuses to ever have any of the fish oil, ever again.

Also -- I am currently reading "Love Me, Feed Me" by Katja Rowel MD....It is a book for adoptive parents of picky eaters.  It seems really geared to toddlers and young kids.  But I am still getting a few ideas.   



Torie

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Reply with quote  #125 
Good work, Honey_Badger!  That is a lot of plusses you and your s have amassed!  I'm always glad to read your updates even though I never seem to have any advice for you so thanks for posting them.

Best,

Torie

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