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HateEDwithApassion

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Reply with quote  #26 
sk8r31,

Have you ever shared your contract? Would you be willing to? 

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19 yo D. AN - since about 15 years old. WR quickly - but the last four years have been tough. Since Sept. 2017, two residential stays, now in IOP, fighting a relapse. ED is hanging on, mental state not great, can't get her to remain at a weight long enough or high enough to see mental healing. She's on a gap year that will likely now turn into two.
sk8r31

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Reply with quote  #27 
I have shared aspects of our contract privately with those on the forum who have asked.  Actually, for quite some time I couldn't find the actual document...it's been a few years.  I did discover it recently though.

I don't have the contract in pdf form but have summarized for those who have expressed interest.  Since our contract days, several years ago now, there are some great resources and examples on the FEAST main site.  I feel like those give great parameters, better than ours.

However,  the main features of any contract are that they are specific to motivations for the individual and that consequences are those that have particular meaning for your loved one.

Our d was 17 at the time, and so very motivated by going away to university out of state 15 months later.  So the contract was very particular to that; very specific about the weight gain needed...2 lbs/week for 8 weeks, and maintenance of weight gain over the following year.  Consequences involved loss of driving privileges for up to 4 days if 2 meals or snacks were missed in a one week period, loss of cell phone, and ultimately we were not prepared to pay for university out of state if the contract was not met.  We were always willing to have friends visit at the house, and willing to pay for community college or university in our hometown if d needed more support.

We asked our d to provide a list of 10 fear foods, (which was incredibly difficult...she had so many!) and when she could eat them 3 times in a row without comment or criticism that item was struck off the list.  When all 10 were off the list, she received an iPad (item that we were willing/able to provide).  I remember balking at this incentive at first, not wanting that monetary incentive, but again, the contract was a collaborative thing, and it was important to have our d's input and ultimately her buy-in.

Our d did test the boundaries of the contract a couple of times, but when she realized that we were serious and not going to back down, there wasn't much of an issue.  It was a relief not to have to argue or explain, & to have everything spelled out in a contract.  It did help to conserve my energy for meal prep and so on..

Hope this helps.  Again, if you have more specific questions I am happy to respond privately.  Just send me an email...

With warm support,
sk8r31

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It is good to not only hope to be successful, but to expect it and accept it--Maya Angelou
wheresmywand

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Reply with quote  #28 
Hi all, I'm sorry I haven't replied or updated, we have been away without internet and I didn't have anything to add except thanks for the continuing support and thanks sk8er for the contract, it was really helpful.
I am all consumed with trying to get my daughter to agree to home schooling at the moment, we have left it so late as I guess have been wanting to believe that it wasn't serious enough to 'rob her' of her senior yer (her words). And I do feel bad, she misses her school ball, her friends, her leadership role that she worked hard for and is proud of, etc. However, i know now that if she goes back we will lose any little bit of momentum we have and she will 18 in November and that will be that. If she didn't need to be at boarding it would all be a lot easier but unfortunately this the way it is, we live 2.5 hours from her school and 1 hour form the nearest school, which I've been told in no uncertain terms is NOT an option. My husband runs a very large and busy family farm and there is zero chance of us moving. I rented with my daughter for almost 18months previously so that she could go to school as a day girl. We got so far but then she went back to boarding and now the weight just continues to slip down very slowly, not terrible but BMI about 19. We have done a contract which she won't sign but has agreed to and we have been approaching fear foods with rewards/incentives etc. What hasn't happened though is weight gain, and she is still writing notes everywhere saying she has no anorexic voice anymore, she just likes to eat healthily, it doesn't matter how many fear foods she tries or how often she eats them she will never choose those foods once she leaves home etc because she prefers 'healthy, fresh food'. The usual ED stuff I guess. I am doing my best to ignore all that and just keep following the process and hoping that weight gain will help - but trouble is, I realise now we are way under the calories she should be having and she does her own breakfast lunch and snacks. At this stage i feel she's had too much independence to have any chance of plating those meals up again but I do strongly supervise these meals and always trying to get her to add more butter to toast, following her round with the cream trying to pour some on her desert etc. She just says no i don't want any cream today thank you, repeatedly. In the plan though I am dinner and desserts and nearly always manage to get some extra cream into desert anyway but even with that and a recent increase in lunch and snack calories (she still in charge of it just adds extra in like brown rice wafers, fruit etc). I think she is only getting about 2,200. 
Such a long waffly post but does anyone have any suggestions on where to go from here. She is due back at school tomorrow but at this stage we are not going but there is not firm plan.
Thank you all

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17 yr old daughter dx RAN Jan 16, but starting restricting some months before that. Let go too early and now back home gaining weight again, slowly challenging fear foods and entrenched 'healthy, pure' eating habits and behaviours.
Torie

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Reply with quote  #29 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wheresmywand
Such a long waffly post but does anyone have any suggestions on where to go from here.


I would say the first order of business is to get clear in your own mind that you have done hero's work already and you deserve a huge pat on the back for all your good efforts.

It sucks, but sometimes illness "steals" their senior year.  Not the worst thing that can happen to them, though.  When my d was ill and complained about (whatever), I always said, "I'm so sorry.  It really sucks to have anorexia, doesn't it" to make sure the blame stayed clearly focused on the proper target.

What you are doing is making sure it doesn't steal the rest of her life - a possibility that makes senior year away from school pale in comparison.

Hang tough.  Your d needs you, now more than ever.

Huge hugs from afar.  xx

-Torie

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"We are angels of hope, of healing, and of light. Darkness flees from us." -YP 
tina72

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Reply with quote  #30 
Hi wheresmywand,
you are doing the right thing. If you let her go back to school her weight will drop down and she will lose senior year and more (exams, college, university, ...).
At home she can finish school and recover during this year and hopefully have a better life without anorexia next year.

The "healthy eating" thing is anorexia, nothing else. We had that for months and now it is completely gone after 6 months WR. My d still has some fear food, but she knows today that every food can be healthy or unhealthy just depending on the amount. It is unhealthy to eat only chocolate but is it as unhealthy to eat only vegetables or salat. I never heard her calling some food "unhealthy" in the last months.
I think it depends in the list that is left: are there only 2 or 3 things left that are declared "unhealthy", so what. But if she thinks half of the food you present is "unhealthy", this is completely ED talk. She tells you the AN voice has left; I don´t believe that is true. She maybe just want you calm down.

She needs to understand that even if she is an adult and living indipendent, she needs to care for her food intake to keep herself healthy. For AN people other food is healthy than for "normal" people. It is the same as with diabetes: you need a special diet when you have diabetes and you need a special "diet" when you have AN.
Try to keep her at home. That is your last chance to get that before she is 18. Use it.

Tina72
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Reply with quote  #31 
It sounds like you have already made a good start with things. I agree with Torie, a huge pat on the back. It also sounds as though ED is trying its best to convince you that it is not there, when many things you say make it sound as though ED is strong. I suspect she doesn't believe that you will keep her at home if that is what is needed. I would also emphasise that if she is to be going away to university you would only support her room/board etc. if you believed that she had recovered. Although in there won't be issues for her as regards tuition here, coming from the country she will need to fund living away from home. Some can manage to work enough and support themselves while studying full time, but many others cannot as their courses are too intense. This gives you leverage even after the age of 18. 



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D diagnosed restrictive AN June 2010 age 13.5. Weight restored July 2012. Relapse and now clawing our way back. Treatment: multiple hospitalisations and individual and family therapy.
toothfairy

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Reply with quote  #32 
Hi,
As  she is 18 in November , Personally I would at this stage keep her from school, whether she gets home school or not, and do all possible to get her into recovery.

Would it help to step back and re-frame.

This is a very serious illness with a high mortality rate, the same as childhood cancer.

Currently she is living with a horrible bully in her brain that beats her up for eating, she is a functioning anorexic.

This illness can absolutely ruin her life, even in the state she is in now, it is likely she is completely tormented with the ED thoughts.

So 
Food is her medicine, just like if somebody had cancer , and chemo was medicine, I would "require " her to have it. So that means, life stops until you eat, every single crumb. I would use leverage, you are in a good situation, she lives at home. No phone, no internet, no money, absolutely nothing until she eats what you serve.

I would sit with her, and the meal, all day and all night, show ED you mean business. Her anorexia will not allow her to make rational choices around food , so therefore I would tell her that it is my job to shop and cook and her only job is to eat what is served.I would not allow her in the kitchen for meal preparation. 

Separate Ed from your Daughter...Kick Ed's butt out of your Daughters life... 

I would sit her at the meal with me on one side and H on the other so she cant leave the table. I would add lots of butter and cream to everything .I would not even buy brown rice, fruit,wafers, and definitely nothing low fat or " healthy " in her mind right now as it is feeding into the anorexia.


Here are 2 books that I would recommend at the stage you are at. " Eating with your anorexic " by Laura Collins and " Anorexia and Other Eating Disorders: How to Help Your Child Eat Well and Be Well: Practical Solutions, Compassionate Communication Tools and Emotional Support for Parents of Children and Teenagers" by Eva Musby. 
Another thing is that both Laura Collins and Eva Musby do telephone consultations, Just FYI.
Best Wishes

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Son,DX with AN, (purging type) in 2015 ,had 4 months immediate inpatient,then FBT at home since. He is now in strong recovery,  and Living life to the full, like a "normal"[biggrin] teen. This is with thanks to ATDT. Hoping to get him into full recovery and remission one day at a time. Getting him to a much higher weight, and with a much higher calorie plan than his clinicians gave him as a target, was instrumental to getting him to the strong recovery that he is in now. Food is the medicine.
toothfairy

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Reply with quote  #33 
Another thought,
Would you consider taking her to the USA to the 5 day intensive programme  here 
http://eatingdisorders.ucsd.edu/treatment/oneweek-intensive-treatment-programs.html

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Son,DX with AN, (purging type) in 2015 ,had 4 months immediate inpatient,then FBT at home since. He is now in strong recovery,  and Living life to the full, like a "normal"[biggrin] teen. This is with thanks to ATDT. Hoping to get him into full recovery and remission one day at a time. Getting him to a much higher weight, and with a much higher calorie plan than his clinicians gave him as a target, was instrumental to getting him to the strong recovery that he is in now. Food is the medicine.
Torie

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Reply with quote  #34 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tina72
She tells you the AN voice has left; I don´t believe that is true. She maybe just want you calm down.


Agree.  ED is famous for telling lies about that kind of thing.  xx

-Torie

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"We are angels of hope, of healing, and of light. Darkness flees from us." -YP 
sk8r31

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Reply with quote  #35 
Adding another voice to suggest that having your d go back to boarding school at present would undermine a lot of your hard work.  You are making progress, and kudos for all the effort and perseverance you've shown.

As Torie and others have said, it sucks to have this illness interrupt such memorable activities and occasions as senior ball, etc.  But you've got to keep your eye on the 'long game'.  You want your d healthy, vibrant and able to have a life that is full and rich.  You want to banish ED.  At the moment, ED thoughts and actions are still strong....eating 'healthfully' is what started my own d down the hellish path of ED.

As hard as it might be to see your d unhappy about not returning to boarding school, there is so much more for her (and you) to look forward to in the future without ED running the show.

Hang in there...we've got your back.

Warmly,
sk8r31

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It is good to not only hope to be successful, but to expect it and accept it--Maya Angelou
mjkz

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Reply with quote  #36 
Another voice to the not sending her back group.  You have hard evidence to support that when you were actually there to do meals with her that she was making progress and has been losing the progress since going back to being a border.  I wouldn't even be asking her to accept being home schooled.  I would be telling her that was her only choice.  You have put in a hard three weeks of effort and you have less than a year.  There is always time later in life for things like balls, etc.  You can't do those things if you're dead.

Quote:
'rob her' of her senior yer (her words).


You aren't robbing her of anything.  Her eating disorder is and no matter how much she protests, her Ed is still serious and life threatening.

Quote:
At this stage i feel she's had too much independence to have any chance of plating those meals up again but I do strongly supervise these meals and always trying to get her to add more butter to toast, following her round with the cream trying to pour some on her desert etc. She just says no i don't want any cream today thank you, repeatedly.


Too much independence given back to her way too early due to circumstances.  You can always take control back and stop asking her if she wants butter on her toast or cream.  Just give it to her.  It is your house and your rules so if you tell her she can't use the kitchen then the only way she gets food is what you give her.
Kali

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Reply with quote  #37 

Hi Wheresmywand,

Sorry you find yourself in this situation. I know you mentioned that you had stayed with your daughter near her school at one point to help her in her recovery. Is that something you might be able to do again? I know that a bmi of 19 is not ideal however if she is functioning at school and socially at that weight and will agree to live with you near the school, perhaps she could do both things: being able to experience her senior year AND being able to gain some weight and work with you to help normalize her eating more. Can she enroll again as a day student?

Just throwing it out there as a possible plan B....I know it is not ideal but then there is nothing about this illness which is.

Warmly,

Kali


 


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wheresmywand

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Reply with quote  #38 
Hi all, thank you for the replies, I get so much strength from them. I was so glad to get reassurance that my decision about school is on the right track; its such a hard decision to make and one that I know a lot of people close to us won't understand at all. And Torie, sk8er and Foodsupport - thank you so much, I'd honestly never considered that I may have done well to date, and I'm trying to see it more like that than as a failure just because I made some mistakes and she's not 'better' yet.
Tina, thank you again, I always find your responses calming. Unfortunately the list of things she won't eat or doesn't want to eat is still pages long. 
Torie, thank you for the line about 'having anorexia sucks doesn't it' and putting the blame back on ED I think she will snort and heap scorn on me when I use it but I'll use it anyway, and it might sink in.

Hi Kali, thanks for the idea. I did the renting with D for 18 months, the bigger picture (not that there really is any picture bigger than this) was that it was time to come home, my husband needs me here and did not want to keep supporting that kind of living arrangement. As you know, ED is really so much harder to deal with on your own as well and I am almost pathologically empathetic - all my daughter's fear and misery transfers to me with just a look, and adds to my own, so it's nice to have the groundedness of my h for both of us when the atmosphere is horrible and ED is ruling the roost/trying to rule the roost.  I did have it in the back of my mind for next term though if things got a really good kick start at home this term. Trouble is then we'd have to start school in the first place and I have just clawed a little strength and control back. I truly don't know and just wish someone else, some super hero, would come along and make all the decisions and be the tough one and have all right answers. 

Toothfairy, you are right, I went shopping today and did not buy any of that stuff that I now realise is colluding with ED. She does eat all her meals, and I dish up large ones, but she makes her own lunch and snacks, though i have in the contract that I do 3 lunches a week and I strongly supervise her snacks to make sure they are the required amount. They are more often than not stupid ED type snacks made up of lots of different bits and pieces but I am a squeaky wheel about this and about normalising eating and choosing easily available food etc and hope that my control over this stuff will increase the longer we're at it. Mjkz I'm trying to get to that level of control but I don't believe I cn manage that just yet. Most nights lately I just put cream on her desserts but she is very unhappy about it, she always hovers in the kitchen at dishing up time and whisks her plate away before gravy etc but otherwise eats what I put on her plate. Today was not a nice day in our house even though I'd driven her into town and shouted her a special facial - because afterwards I made her eat an ordinary chicken salad sandwich from the service station. OK she took out the 'disgusting plastic cheese' but it had mayo on it and I think that bullied her for the rest of the day.
TF Thank you for the link. Id really like to know if you did this or if anyone else out there did this and how much did you get out of it, especially people who have been dealing with it for a long time and who have read almost every book available on the subject, and I agree with the books you recommend TF they were the 2 I found the most useful and I must get out Eva Musby to read again. I'm really keen to do this if I can can get h on board and if it will make a big difference to our chances of a successful recovery process, it won't be cheap.

I have a couple of specific questions before I go but I'm grateful for any and all further feedback.
Does anyone have any good links or suggestions for reading to help family members and friends who although well motivated just don't 'get it' and often make things harder. And has anyone ever given their child any reading on the subject that has been helpful and may help her to know I'm not just making the things I tell her up, something that might help her to understand that this healthy eating carry on is common and part of the illness. 
Thank you all again, off to bed to lie awake[rolleyes]

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17 yr old daughter dx RAN Jan 16, but starting restricting some months before that. Let go too early and now back home gaining weight again, slowly challenging fear foods and entrenched 'healthy, pure' eating habits and behaviours.
Foodsupport_AUS

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Reply with quote  #39 
I got a few people to read Decoding Anorexia, but I also found the FEAST booklets in the learning center a good place to start for information for others. 

As for reading for someone with ED, it is very hard at the stage of illness where she can't see that she is ill. My D read decoding anorexia 12 months ago, and it was a turning point for her seeing how her brain was hijacked and helped to free her from guilt about being ill, it is not really triggering of ED behaviours, as is Life without ED. Overall though I think being clear that "clean eating" or "healthy eating" is code for eating disorder and until you can see that she can freely eat any food without distress consistently you know her ED is still strong

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D diagnosed restrictive AN June 2010 age 13.5. Weight restored July 2012. Relapse and now clawing our way back. Treatment: multiple hospitalisations and individual and family therapy.
tina72

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Reply with quote  #40 
Hi,
"Unfortunately the list of things she won't eat or doesn't want to eat is still pages long."
We did it that way:
I asked my d to write a list divided into 3 parts:
1. what I will eat now
2. what I might eat in the next time, but am afraid of
3. what I can´t even think about eating again now
Then we did one food from Nr. 2 every week. We presented that food in the next weeks again until it changed to Nr. 1. Then we replaced that meal from Nr. 2 with one food from Nr.3
The aim was to get rid of Nr. 3 in the next 6 months. We are nearly there, there are only 5 things left on Nr. 3 now.

"Most nights lately I just put cream on her desserts but she is very unhappy about it, she always hovers in the kitchen at dishing up time and whisks her plate away before gravy etc but otherwise eats what I put on her plate."
Think about how to get her out of the kitchen. Ask her to do something in the garden, to fetch up hubby, to feed the cat. Ask hubby if he comes in for lunch to come 10 min earlier and distract her with whatever. Think about other ideas. You will find something. She should not see what you add to her meals.

Eva Musby does skype sessions, maybe it can be helpful to get hubby on board when he can talk to her.
There are a lot of Dads around here, maybe you can encourage him to join in here?

"Does anyone have any good links or suggestions for reading to help family members and friends who although well motivated just don't 'get it' and often make things harder." I encouraged my MIL to read Harriet Browns "Brave girl eating" to understand what is going around here. I took that one because it was the only one available in german, so any other (from Laura Collins for example) would be the same.

"And has anyone ever given their child any reading on the subject that has been helpful and may help her to know I'm not just making the things I tell her up, something that might help her to understand that this healthy eating carry on is common and part of the illness."
That is something for recovery time and when they know that they are ill and need help. I would suggest Carrie Arnolds book would be the best one for that, too, but although my d is very interested in chemistry and biology I still wait some months but I will give her the book in 2 or 3 months after the exams I think. It is a bit difficult to decide what might trigger them again and what not.
As long as her brain is malnurished and she has strict ED behaviour, that will be lost time because she cannot understand this.
Tina72




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Reply with quote  #41 
Hi there,
Good on you for not buying the " healthy or diet" stuff, This is crucial, also if you have a weighing scales and or food scales I would get rid of them too.
I would remove all food items in the home that have low fat, healthy option or diet , including slimline milk etc...straight into the bin.
At this point in time I would not even have fruit or veg......High calorie, High fat re-feeding / fear foods is whats going to be needed going forward. The only way out of this is through this.

Regarding her snacks, I would give her an option at this stage, either she makes the snack to be of a suitable calorific value, ie 300/400 plus,plus.... or that you will need to take over the snacks.
Again, I would stop buying the type of thing she is making , and buy things like Muffins or high calorie  ice cream or nachos and cheese , or chocolate bar ,or homemade popcorn with butter , and let her pick from two of those type of options. No negotiation.

Regarding UCSD, at the time when my S was very ill, I knew that the treatment options in Ireland were extremely limited, and I researched my options, including taking my kid to the UK ( Maudsley), and also another few options I researched were Kartini in Oregon and UCSD in San Diego.

After a lot of research, UCSD became my plan B , if I could not get him into recovery here. 
However I managed to get him into recovery after a 4 month hospital stay here and then FBT at home for a very long time.

It is a 5 day intensive, like a bootcamp - kickstart for the family , If you put it in the search bar on this site , you will find lots of links and info on the programme, as many members have used it.
You can call them directly or email them, they are extremely helpful on the phone and email.

Regarding friends and family, I agree the book "Brave girl eating" is a great one for that, or else if you feel a book would be too much I would send them these two links.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/26/magazine/26anorexia.html
and also 
https://cheriemonarch.com/2017/10/21/if-it-were-cancer/
Best wishes

__________________
Son,DX with AN, (purging type) in 2015 ,had 4 months immediate inpatient,then FBT at home since. He is now in strong recovery,  and Living life to the full, like a "normal"[biggrin] teen. This is with thanks to ATDT. Hoping to get him into full recovery and remission one day at a time. Getting him to a much higher weight, and with a much higher calorie plan than his clinicians gave him as a target, was instrumental to getting him to the strong recovery that he is in now. Food is the medicine.
sk8r31

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Reply with quote  #42 
Our family did the 5 Day Multi-Family Intensive program at UCSD, and it was a game-changer for us all.  D gained 2 1/2 lbs during that week, so it gave me confidence that we could aim for a weekly weight gain of at least 2 lbs.  D did indeed manage that, and over the course of 10 weeks was at WR...though we did also know that she needed a weight gain until she was in her 20's.

I am happy to give more details about our week, though there are others on the forum with more recent experience.

I wouldn't bother giving your d anything to read at this stage, but the books previously mentioned, Decoding Anorexia, Brave Girl Eating and June Alexander's My Kid is Back, were all great for h & I to read.  I found My Kid is Back to be pretty inspiring...I thought if the families profiled could help their loved ones, then I could too.

In the early stages of our d's illness, I also wanted someone, anyone, to tell me what to do or to make decisions for me.  It is just so hard sometimes to muster the strength to move forward.  Peer support on the forum and in person is what got me through.  Lean on the folks here to help when your spirits are sagging...

Sending you strength and support,
sk8r31

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It is good to not only hope to be successful, but to expect it and accept it--Maya Angelou
Torie

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Reply with quote  #43 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wheresmywand
I am doing my best to ignore all that and just keep following the process and hoping that weight gain will help - but trouble is, I realise now we are way under the calories she should be having and she does her own breakfast lunch and snacks. At this stage i feel she's had too much independence to have any chance of plating those meals up again but I do strongly supervise these meals and always trying to get her to add more butter to toast, following her round with the cream trying to pour some on her desert etc. She just says no i don't want any cream today thank you, repeatedly. In the plan though I am dinner and desserts and nearly always manage to get some extra cream into desert anyway but even with that and a recent increase in lunch and snack calories (she still in charge of it just adds extra in like brown rice wafers, fruit etc). I think she is only getting about 2,200. 


I'm just curious what these desserts are that can have cream added at the end.  The only thing that comes to mind is strawberries and cream, but surely that's not what you mean?  Can you serve pie?  Cheesecake?

As you probably know, different brands can very greatly wrt calories.  Premium brands of ice cream have WAY more calories than regular, and likewise with full fat milk, cheese, yogurt, etc.  Plus she still needs plenty of fat for brain healing.  Some here have been able to find breads that pack a lot of calories into a regular-sized slice.

Does she have a caloric beverage with every meal and snack?  Full fat milk is great, and you can add in extra cream, even to the carton on the way home from the grocery store.  (I remember reading about a forum member furtively pouring out some of the milk in the parking lot to make space for the cream.)

"she always hovers in the kitchen at dishing up time and whisks her plate away before gravy etc but otherwise eats what I put on her plate."  Okay, so how are we going to get that gravy on her meal?  Can you put the gravy on BEFORE serving the dish or maybe hold her plate in your hand until you have finished serving the WHOLE thing.  Or tell her if she is going to skip the gravy she will need (____, (a milkshake?) which is something she hates even more) to create a full meal like the rest of the family is having.  Or perhaps tell her if she can't manage the full meal WITH the gravy or whatever, she is clearly not well enough to be in charge of her breakfast and lunch.  Or, perhaps as a minimum, if she is refusing to let you finish serving the meal (adding gravy or whatever), she needs to stay out of the kitchen.

It won't be pretty, I know, as ED will lash out when you up your game.  I hope your h will be onboard with backing you up as you challenge the beast at a higher level, or perhaps HE could be the one to step in and add the gravy and REQUIRE (not suggest) more butter on her toast, etc.

Your d needs to see that you are stronger than ED.  It is hard, but you can do it.

Hugs from afar, xx

-Torie

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wheresmywand

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Reply with quote  #44 
Thank you.
We have 3 'allowable' desserts - rice pudding (which I put cream in), a sort of milk tart thing with berries - used to have tinned fruit it but that is still to come on the FF list (which I put a bit of cream in gaining a lot of flak, cant put too much in this it changes it), and a new one on this weeks FF list - apple/fruit crumble which obviously I cant put cream in, only on if she isn't in full refusal mode. We make home made greek whole milk yoghurt but i stupidly admitted putting extra whole milk powder in this morning. Doh!!! Now she won't eat it and I've lost one of my calorie sources. She is beginning to be very cold and hostile to me and telling me I'm not doing much to sell the home schooling idea to her - being stuck at home with a crazy nag for a year etc. 
Thanks sk8er I might PM you about your experiences. I feel a bit nervous to even suggest it my h but i will..

She drinks a hell of a lot of black tea with a touch of milk - I'm thinking its a weight loss thing, not sure if 4-5 cups a day can help you lose weight?
I've been reading other peoples posts a lot and see that clean eating/healthy eating basically IS anorexia, and I've allowed it to go on for so long, it feels almost insurmountable to deal with its so ingrained in her. I wonder if the intensive 5 day program mentioned addresses this stuff. She uses morals etc a lot to refuse foods like gravy and meat, and says at least I'm eating the chicken, be grateful for that. One thing I realise is that my own 'healthy eating' in the past hasn't helped. I have not got and have never had an ED, have cream on everything, give me an apple cream doughnut or anything with whipped cream and I'll eat it, but in this family we haven't bought packaged snacks, had sugary drinks, added sugar to tea and coffee etc for a very long time, preceding the illness. We eat lots of veggies. I suppose I could heap more blame on myself about this but I'm not going to. I just have to proceed from here.

I am sad that after over 18 months away my 24 yr old son is coming home from Ireland where he's been working and travelling etc in early March and he will find us still broken and I can't even look forward to him coming home, I just feel more anxiety about it, like I've failed him as well and how hard it will be trying to put on a happy strong face.




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17 yr old daughter dx RAN Jan 16, but starting restricting some months before that. Let go too early and now back home gaining weight again, slowly challenging fear foods and entrenched 'healthy, pure' eating habits and behaviours.
hopefulmama

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Reply with quote  #45 
Quote:
I suppose I could heap more blame on myself about this but I'm not going to. I just have to proceed from here.


Great job.  I was in the same boat as you.  My mom had been morbidly obese most of my life and I had some "healthy" eating habits that were unhealthy.  My habits (and yours) did not cause our daughters' eating disorders.  I did though realize that if I wanted to get my daughter better, I had to change how I modeled healthy for her.  In our house today we eat everything.  If I feel like dessert I eat it.  Healthy eating is all foods in moderation. I weigh about 10 pounds more than I used to, but I think I was trying to maintain a weight that was not my set point.  I learned through this process that I like wine and chocolate.  My daughter now lives in another state.  When she comes home, her visit revolves around going for all of her favorite foods.  I try to never take it for granted based on where we came from. No guilt for the past as you say.  We don't know what we don't know.  You are doing a great job of figuring out moving forward. 

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Enjoying my 23 year-old daughter's achievement of active recovery that was made possible by the resources and education I found on this forum.

Don't give up hope!
Torie

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Reply with quote  #46 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wheresmywand
Thanks sk8er I might PM you about your experiences. I feel a bit nervous to even suggest it my h but i will....

I've been reading other peoples posts a lot and see that clean eating/healthy eating basically IS anorexia, and I've allowed it to go on for so long, it feels almost insurmountable to deal with its so ingrained in her. I wonder if the intensive 5 day program mentioned addresses this stuff. 


We didn't do the 5 day program, but based on what others have reported, I would pretty much move heaven and earth to get my family there if need be.  They seem to do a great job getting both parents on the same page and basically hitting the reset button.  Whatever you wish you had done differently - that would be your chance to make the changes in a place where the true professionals support you and enhance your parental authority instead of undermining it.    

Yes, it is expensive, but.  

Here in the US we have residential programs that cost more than $1000 per day, and sufferers tend to stay in them for months at a time.  Obviously, the weeklong program is pocket change in comparison.  And compared to watching this vile illness consume your d for decades to come (or a lifetime) - well, obviously the weeklong program is a real bargain.

If your h isn't willing to give it a try, what are his suggestions for getting things moving forward promptly? xx

-Torie

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wheresmywand

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Reply with quote  #47 
I love the way you put that Torie, thank you so much. He's so busy at the moment its hard to get time alone together, especially to get him to read all the things I've been reading, but as soon as i get the chance I will bring it up. 
Thanks hopefulmama, we do eat most things here just not what I'd considered junk for a long time, but I'm aware that a lot of 'normal' snack stuff just isn't in this house and I've forgotten almost what those things were. Also lunches - what do most people have? we seem to usually revolve our lunch around scrambled or poached eggs on toast, and so does d, hers just never have cream in them and she puts less butter on toast but does use avocado as well. Sometimes sandwiches but she avoids 'normal' bread likes stuff that is actually sam or more calories so thats ok atm.

It drives me crazy seeing her trying to maintain her 'healthy' eating stuff even though the amount of calories she has to have is not negotiable - but my gut is telling me this has to stop and I have to take over all. We are just so far from that though and like I said, not sure what normal really looks like anymore. Both my husband and I are long and lean and have always been that way - should I be putting on weight? I always eat a lot and am making a conscious effort to eat even more and have loads of jam on toast etc, never skip dessert. 
I'm sorry to lean so heavily on this forum at the moment, if I lean any harder I'll fall over.

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17 yr old daughter dx RAN Jan 16, but starting restricting some months before that. Let go too early and now back home gaining weight again, slowly challenging fear foods and entrenched 'healthy, pure' eating habits and behaviours.
Torie

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Reply with quote  #48 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wheresmywand
I'm sorry to lean so heavily on this forum at the moment, if I lean any harder I'll fall over.


Haha ... please don't feel bad about that, though, because we're all here to pay back the help we got when we needed it most.

Lunch.  Let's see.  In the Torie household, lunch always includes a serving of meat (about the size of your palm, or 3 thick-sliced strips of bacon), a caloric beverage (preferably full fat milk), carbs (e.g., a serving of French fries or 2 slices of bread or potato chips), a dessert item (e.g., brownie or candy bar or 2 cookies) and a fruit/vegetable.  I can rattle that off easily because I packed my d's lunch all 4 years of high school while she was recovering from ED, and I always included those 5 things.

For breakfast, she always had a large glass of milk, meat (usually sausage or bacon), carbs (bagel with cream cheese or pancakes or large muffin).  Or 2 - 3 eggs + meat + toast + milk.  That type of thing.

Now that she is away at university, everyone laughs at me for sending so many groceries to her dorm room.  As you can imagine, I'm delighted to be able to do that. xx

-Torie

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Torie

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Reply with quote  #49 
P.S. My d is 19 and she barely knows how to cook anything.  She can make scrambled eggs, brownies, and reheat things in the microwave.  That's about it.   guess I will have some teaching to do before she gets her first apartment.  xx

-Torie

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tina72

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Reply with quote  #50 
"We have 3 'allowable' desserts - rice pudding (which I put cream in), a sort of milk tart thing with berries - used to have tinned fruit it but that is still to come on the FF list"
You are in charge for food. You don´t have to listen to what ED is "allowing". Your d inside wants to eat other things but ED is not allowing it. If you follow EDs rules, you do not help her. All possible desserts she ate before ED are "allowed" and have to be eaten.

"She is beginning to be very cold and hostile to me"
This will last for a while, but it is not your d that is cold and hostile to you, it is ED who is fearing that you could be an enemy. If you need to fight something, you are on the right path. Recovering from ED is a war with many little battles. No battle, no recovery.
Good news: She will be as nice as before and you will have a pretty good relationship afterwards. Going through this hell is necessary but it doesn´t make you lose her.

"She drinks a hell of a lot of black tea with a touch of milk - I'm thinking its a weight loss thing, not sure if 4-5 cups a day can help you lose weight?"
She might be water loading or use it against hunger. She should not drink much more than 2 l a day and not less than 1,5 l.

Don´t think about what you have done or what you have eaten. This didn´t cause her anorexia. It is genetic and bio-chemical. If all people who grow up in a veggie household get anorexia, we would have a big problem.
If she had diabetes, you would not think about wether it was a mistake to let her eat ice-cream when she was a child. You would change her diet today and that is all you can do.

"I can't even look forward to him coming home, I just feel more anxiety about it, like I've failed him as well and how hard it will be trying to put on a happy strong face."
You know much more about this damn disease today. You have help now and you know what you must do now.
Try to see it as a little break for you. He can help you distracting his sister, he can help you distracting yourself. You will get the chance to have some nice time with him. He is your son. He loves you. You do not need to put a happy face on. He will see that it is put on, anyway.

"but I'm aware that a lot of 'normal' snack stuff just isn't in this house and I've forgotten almost what those things were"
great chance when your son comes back: take him to the crocery, he will know what normal snacks are [wink]

"Also lunches - what do most people have?"
Remember what your mother and grandmother were cooking.
We do a meal plan for the next week every sunday. Now my d does it but I would not suggest your d to do it in her state.
We eat: 2 times fish with rice (with canola oil added) or mashed potatoes (very good to add cream and butter) or chips and some vegetable (with added canola oil).
            2 times meat with rice, mashed potatoes, chips or noodles and some vegetable.
            3 times "vegetarian" what means no fish no meat but eggs, milk and butter: for example noodles with cream sauce and some vegetable, noodles carbonara
           (with cream and bacon), veggie burgers, pizza, vegetarian lasagne with soya meat, califlower soup (with cream and melted cheese added), ....
If you need more ideas, ask.
Devide the plate into 3 parts, 2 big ones for meat/fish and potatoes/rice and a smaller one for vegetable. Add a desert (pudding, joghurt, milk rice, applesauce, ice-cream....). Serve a smoothie to drink with the meal.

"It drives me crazy seeing her trying to maintain her 'healthy' eating stuff"
So break this rules. No healthy eating stuff any more. Every food is healthy, it only depends on the amount. Just chocolate is as unhealthy as just salat.

"but my gut is telling me this has to stop and I have to take over all"
YES!!!

"not sure what normal really looks like anymore"
you will get that again, trust your gut

"should I be putting on weight? I always eat a lot and am making a conscious effort to eat even more and have loads of jam on toast etc, never skip dessert."
Try to eat normal like you do but be a good model for adding sugar to tea or coffee and eating some sweets.
You will put weight on if you like it or not, believe me. Cooking like a french cook will make you all gain some weight, but this is not forever.

I'm sorry to lean so heavily on this forum at the moment, if I lean any harder I'll fall over.

Please DON´T FEEL SORRY!!! That is what this forum is made for and we all were where you are now and as Torie said, that is our little chance to pay something back. We love to do this and we love to help you!
A very big hug from Germany,

Tina72
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